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Potshots at the TTC

I just stopped riding my bike myself, but I am going to attempt it again on non snowy days. The Queen car is just a complete disaster, today three in a row came (i go WB from Dufferin and Queen), I don't know how long people were waiting but I decided to take the 2nd one as riders (idiots?) were still trying to get on a packed car even though you could see the one behind was much less crowded.

If the TTC continues to mess up, I am seriously considering buying an Ebike, it would be $1400 well spent.
 
Interesting thoughts on NYC's Straphangers Campaign...

Everyone: I am a member of the Straphangers Campaign forum myself- the link here is:
WWW.STRAPHANGERS.ORG/

Yes-I have observed myself about the Rocket Riders-the BIG difference is that the SC is a part of the New York Public Interest Research Group or NYPIRG if you prefer.
They are a watchdog-type organization that is totally independent of the NY MTA.
Look for posts there in the "RIDERS DIARY" section with the screen name MACTRAXX-that's me. LI MIKE
 
unimaginative2 said:
I'm very glad that Rocket Riders (largely thanks to Steve Munro, I think) is getting into service issues. Before now, it was rather unique among transit advocacy organizations in that it acted essentially as a cheerleader for TTC management. That's rather different from the Straphangers in New York, for example, which issues a report card for every subway route telling the authority where it has to improve.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Before, Rocket Riders (which is such a flimsy, unstructured group without a real "membership") whined about fare increases and little else. Getting into specific proejcts and concentrated campaigns is the way forward.
 
ITcomputer said:
.. I don't know how long people were waiting but I decided to take the 2nd one as riders (idiots?) were still trying to get on a packed car even though you could see the one behind was much less crowded.
Click to expand...
Given the TTC's tendancy to short-turn the second or third car (or both) under these situations, perhaps the 'idiots' simply didn't want to be short-turned and risk 40-minutes for another car, if they got in one of the other vehicles.

By one definition, given the frequent unreliablity of the service in rush-hours, perhaps the 'idiots' are the ones who continue to use it! :)
 
again, blame the province and the feds for the lack of funding. TTC service has deteriorated greatly in the past couple years since there hasn't been a significant increase in operating subsidies in order to increase service. Instead, you have both the province and the feds saying "they're doing something" by throwing cash at pet capital projects that do nothing for the end rider on a day-to-day basis, TODAY.

The biggest impact any government could have on the TTC is an increase in operating subsidy. Because of the budget crisis earlier this year, the TTC has put off service improvements in response to overcrowding and unreliability (because of overcrowding)... word is that they are hoping to put these improvements in mid-2008, barring another budget crisis.

From the TTC board period memo - the overcrowding list is now THREE pages long... it used to be just half a page when the increases were first deferred... virtually every major route is suffering from major overcrowding, TTC staff know about it, they've planned out what they're going to do about it... but then the money's not there.

3. REQUIRED SERVICE INCREASES DEFERRED
The following service increases to reduce crowding are justified, but cannot be
implemented until at least February 2008 because of the City’s budget crisis. These
deferred service increases require approximately 5,030 additional weekly hours of service.
The service increases that would be made in the peak periods as part of the Ridership
Growth Strategy are not included on this list, as they have been deferred until funding is
available.
511 BATHURST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday,
Sunday/holiday afternoon and early evening
7 BATHURST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Saturday early evening
9 BELLAMY – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning and afternoon
peak period
17 BIRCHMOUNT – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday afternoon peak
period
300 BLOOR-DANFORTH – Additional service to reduce crowding, seven days a week
50 BURNHAMTHORPE – Additional service to reduce crowding: Sunday morning
506 CARLTON – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday,
Sunday/holiday daytime
22 COXWELL – Additional service to reduce crowding: Saturday afternoon
113 DANFORTH – Additional service to reduce crowding: Saturday afternoon
25 DON MILLS – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday
108 DOWNSVIEW – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday early evening;
Saturday afternoon
29 DUFFERIN – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday, afternoon
peak period, early evening and late evening; Saturday daytime, early evening, and late
evening; Sunday/holiday daytime, early evening, and late evening.
34 EGLINTON EAST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday,
afternoon peak period, early evening and late evening; Saturday daytime;
Sunday/holiday morning.
32 EGLINTON WEST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday late evening;
Saturday daytime.
39 FINCH EAST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak
period, midday, afternoon peak period, early evening and late evening; Saturday daytime
and late evening; Sunday/holiday daytime and early evening.
36 FINCH WEST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday, early
evening and late evening; Saturday daytime, early evening, and late evening;
Sunday/holiday daytime and early evening.
100 FLEMINGDON PARK – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday afternoon
peak period, early evening and late evening; Saturday afternoon, and early evening;
Sunday/holiday early evening and late evening.
38 HIGHLAND CREEK – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday,
afternoon peak period, and early evening.
191 HIGHWAY 27 ROCKET – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning
peak period, midday, and afternoon peak period; Saturday daytime.
SERVICE CHANGES JANUARY 2008 Page 8
37 ISLINGTON – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday; Saturday
daytime, early evening, and late evening; Sunday/holiday afternoon.
35 JANE – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday and late evening;
Saturday daytime, early evening, and late evening; Sunday/holiday daytime and early
evening.
41 KEELE – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak period,
midday and late evening; Saturday daytime; Sunday/holiday daytime.
43 KENNEDY – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday late evening;
Sunday/holiday daytime.
504 KING – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday early evening.
12 KINGSTON RD – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak
period.
44 KIPLING SOUTH – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday.
54 LAWRENCE EAST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday;
Saturday daytime.
52 LAWRENCE WEST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday;
Saturday daytime; Sunday/holiday daytime.
129 MCCOWAN NORTH – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning
peak period, midday, afternoon peak period, and early evening; Saturday daytime;
Sunday/holiday early evening.
58 MALTON – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak period,
midday, and afternoon peak period; Saturday daytime and early evening; Sunday/holiday
daytime.
102 MARKHAM RD – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday afternoon peak
period.
57 MIDLAND – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak period.
116 MORNINGSIDE – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday, and
early evening; Saturday early evening; Sunday/holiday early and late evening.
133 NEILSON – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak period,
midday, afternoon peak period, and early evening; Saturday daytime and early evening;
Sunday/holiday daytime.
70 O’CONNOR – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday afternoon peak
period.
63 OSSINGTON – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday early evening;
Saturday daytime.
76 ROYAL YORK SOUTH – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday afternoon
peak period.
501 QUEEN – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday early evening;
Saturday daytime and early evening; Sunday/holiday daytime, and early evening.
86 SCARBOROUGH – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday, and
early evening; Saturday early evening; Sunday/holiday early evening.
190 SCARBOROUGH CENTRE ROCKET – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday
midday, and afternoon peak period.
85 SHEPPARD EAST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak
period, midday, afternoon peak period and early evening; Saturday afternoon;
Sunday/holiday daytime.
84 SHEPPARD WEST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday.
SERVICE CHANGES JANUARY 2008 Page 9
53 STEELES EAST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday,
afternoon peak period, early evening and late evening; Saturday daytime;
Sunday/holiday daytime.
60 STEELES WEST – Additional service to reduce crowding: Saturday daytime.
124 SUNNYBROOK – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday midday.
168 SYMINGTON – Additional service to reduce crowding: Saturday afternoon.
24 VICTORIA PARK – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak
period.
68 WARDEN – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak period,
and midday.
112 WEST MALL – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak
period, and early evening.
89 WESTON – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday early evening.
165 WESTON RD NORTH – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning
peak period, midday, afternoon peak period, and early evening.
96 WILSON – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak period,
midday, and early evening.
92 WOODBINE SOUTH – Additional service to reduce crowding: Saturday/Sunday/holiday
afternoons and evening.
320 YONGE – Additional service to reduce crowding, seven days a week
95 YORK MILLS – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday morning peak
period, midday, afternoon peak period, early evening and late evening; Saturday
daytime; Sunday/holiday afternoon
196 YORK UNIVERSITY ROCKET – Additional service to reduce crowding: Monday-Friday
morning peak period, midday, afternoon peak period, and early evening.
Click to expand...
 
nfitz said:
Given the TTC's tendancy to short-turn the second or third car (or both) under these situations, perhaps the 'idiots' simply didn't want to be short-turned and risk 40-minutes for another car, if they got in one of the other vehicles.

By one definition, given the frequent unreliablity of the service in rush-hours, perhaps the 'idiots' are the ones who continue to use it! :)
Click to expand...

Good point, and yes count me as one of those idiots that continue to use the service.
 
The TTC (ideally) tends to run *just* enough vehicles to ensure that routes are full but not overcrowded...but in these cases it only takes a tiny ridership increase to make the route overcrowded. This isn't surprising, however, in a city where any route that isn't completely full is considered an obscene failure.
 
False. Read Service Board Changes and you can see the scheduled vehicles for most of the day is typically below the loading standard, which is not "overcrowding", considering off peak, all passengers *should* get a seat, and during peak, the maximum on a old look 40 footer is 57, which is not a number you would expect for people to be packed like sardines. Yes, this number is based completely on the assumption that service would be regular, but it isn't because of factors out of TTC control. What is your solution scarberian? Routes don't have to be completely full, they have to meet a financial standard, which is about 30 passengers per trip. That is, hardly, at all, "completely full". Until transit is completely separated from traffic in Toronto, it will never be possible to have perfect service. You can't just slap on more buses. I thought you'd have more logic than that.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
The TTC (ideally) tends to run *just* enough vehicles to ensure that routes are full but not overcrowded...but in these cases it only takes a tiny ridership increase to make the route overcrowded. This isn't surprising, however, in a city where any route that isn't completely full is considered an obscene failure.
Click to expand...


Glencairn 14
 
299 bloor call control. said:
False. Read Service Board Changes and you can see the scheduled vehicles for most of the day is typically below the loading standard, which is not "overcrowding", considering off peak, all passengers *should* get a seat, and during peak, the maximum on a old look 40 footer is 57, which is not a number you would expect for people to be packed like sardines. Yes, this number is based completely on the assumption that service would be regular, but it isn't because of factors out of TTC control. What is your solution scarberian? Routes don't have to be completely full, they have to meet a financial standard, which is about 30 passengers per trip. That is, hardly, at all, "completely full". Until transit is completely separated from traffic in Toronto, it will never be possible to have perfect service. You can't just slap on more buses. I thought you'd have more logic than that.
Click to expand...

And those policies simply don't always translate into reality out there on the streets. When pretty much every major route routinely leaves people behind at the subway stations or on the street during rush hour, you know it's time to build some higher order transit lines...but this city is too busy shooting itself in the feet to do so.
 
then what do you propose TTC Staff do? tell me. should they waste their time rewriting all their policies that are running the system the best it could under the circumstances of zero government support to put all these subway lines in that you continuously rant about? i'm not asking you what the city should do, nor what the province should do, nor what the feds should do because that is already obvious. what would YOU, as a TTC planner, do, to improve service? what CAN you do? are you going to stand out on every congested street and run after cars that don't yield to buses like they should? are you going to, with your own bare hands, move cars aside that are in a collision? TTC staff cannot do this. They have already planned many "quick start" rapid transit on their own to do something to change transit quickly, that was called the Ridership Growth Strategy. Transit City is an extension of that. And one day, maybe Subway City. It's about small step, incremental planning. Big moves often fail.

On a side note, maybe because I am PMSing, so I'm going to let you take this witha grain of salt, but more and more i'm frustrated with your posts that seem to be blaming TTC staff for bad ideas and bad management. Look at the list above: the staff want to increase service. they have proved it, they have numbers, the service designs are all done. what's stopping it? NOT THEM. They want to improve it. They say that service is the answer, not new fangled doohickeys or over priced solutions for problems that exist here and now. The staff are committed to this, and this is what should be done. A subway would be great, but not until all the needs of TODAY are met.
Stop blaming TTC staff... I was one of them and I was sometimes so disillusioned with my job with people complaining continuously how crappy of a job you're doing for reasons you can't control... or doing something, like, let's say, cutting a route that is bleeding money from the system (194 Zoo Rocket for example) and then have a micromanaging or power-tripping councillor tell you to go against all that is logical and for the better of the system as a whole. It's not easy, they do their best, and the financial performance of the system proves it.
 
Look, 299, it doesn't take massive government subsidies to make the Queen Car leave its terminal at a regular interval. Even Steve Munro, no enemy of the TTC staff, thinks that the service is abysmal. Only when the TTC or some of their political masters take ownership of their problems rather than endlessly passing the buck or blaming higher levels of government will we start to see real progress.
 
it's not like the TTC staff is just sitting back and saying, oh we'll just let the Queen car suck ass. They've been trying to find a solution for years, and I'm sure they will appreciate some of the feedback. That's the thing though, there's constructive feedback, which is what the people concerned about the Queen Car are doing with their workshop, and then there's constant complaining. I'm just getting frustrated to get more of the latter. Then there's the dreamboats... and then they complain when their ideas aren't implemented.. a certain mike comes to mind... The thing is, we still considered most of these ideas... I lost count on how many ridership projections and financial analyses I did on these other-universe ideas that we believed would fail, but for the sake of giving every idea a fair chance, we did them. so they try, they give the benefit of the doubt, and i don't blame them for being frustrated sometimes because no one realizes how much dedication they have to the system.
 
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