Potshots at the TTC

[299 bloor call control.]

i agree completely. when i was reviewing the Airport Rocket a couple years back and doing onboard observations (and subsequently revising the loading standard on a 192 by a factor in relation to the average space luggage takes up per trip -- hence why the service was bumped up so drastically), i noticed that there were in fact people who were taking the 192 from Kipling and using the airport as a transfer to Mississauga Transit, GO Transit, and 58 Malton buses... in my mind, that was a clever find by the riders there that was never ever publicized nor marketed for the 192... The 194 could have operated the same way, but the fact that it wasn't a frequently running rocket route that even if people knew about it, they may not take it when a more frequent local route is available.

 

[CDL.TO]

Before my dad retired I would take the 192 to Terminal 3, walk down the path at the north end of the terminal which take you to Airport Road, and get picked up there. It was by far the cheapest and easiest way to visit the folks. There would sometimes be other cars waiting there to pick people up, so I obviously wasn't the only one.

 

[unimaginative2]

Another example of weak TTC marketing is a friend from Newmarket who was telling all of her other Newmarket friends of her astonishing new discovery: there's a subway station right next to the 404! They had never heard of such a thing, and were amazed to discover that it saved them scads of time compared with driving to Finch park and ride.

 

[nfitz]

If anyone in Newmarket (where ever that is - north of Steeles somewhere? ) isn't aware about the Don Mills station, then I don't think that they can blame the TTC about a lack of information. Surely there has been a huge amount of publicity about the Sheppard subway. Heck, even bording the trains at Finch, you can see the station and location shown on maps prominently displayed in each train.

 

[unimaginative2]

Yes, but not everybody is an urban type or a transit geek. If potential customers aren't aware of a company's product, it's not the customer's fault.

 

[ITcomputer]

^ As far as the TTC is concerned, everything is the customer's fault.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

i'm starting to think I have to put out a Troll alert....

 

[ITcomputer]

If you feel you have to, go ahead.

but I'm being serious as that I feel the TTC thinks of its riders as a burden, that things would run so much better at the TTC without those pesky riders.

Heck, even bunching on the Queen streetcar line would no longer be an issue without riders.

 

[rbt]

i noticed that there were in fact people who were taking the 192 from Kipling and using the airport as a transfer to Mississauga Transit, GO Transit, and 58 Malton buses...

I've done that to reach locations on Dixon Road. 192 was the first to leave Kipling station heading north, so I got on it. Worked quite well and I finally found out where that Jetliner Road staircase goes.

 

[ShonTron]

i'm starting to think I have to put out a Troll alert....

Actually, I agree with ITComputer on this one, though he is a bit crude about it. Even Steve Munro has that opinion.

Remember the Top Reasons for Delays - where most of them were because of passengers? Or my experiences with drivers blaming passengers for not moving all the way to the back of an already overcrowded Orion VII where the tiny aisle above the steps is not designed at all for standees? (When the real problem would likely be either poor service or horrible line management). There is a tendancy to blame either congestion (when it's not always the case) or passengers for problems that the TTC either should fix, or lobby for funds to correct. I think that Gary Webster at least has a sense of what should be done (his presentations to TTC Commissioners give me this sense), I think Ducharme allowed this culture to happen at the TTC more than anyone (his resignation was about the only good thing to come out of the illegal wildcat strike of 2006), and it will take time to change amongst the middle managers.

 

[rpgr]

Of course TTC sees its riders as burdens... a lot of immigrants that don't speak english very well and riders that make demands of drivers/workers.

Yesterday i saw a shameful scene at Young/Bloor where an elderly Oriental woman was asking an African TTC woman worker for directions and she screamed at her "I can't help you because I can only speak english!"

It's less a jab at the workers and more a comment on life in the service industry. There's only so many times a person can repeat the same answer and explain the same thing till they start going nuts. I got a little snippy when working in retail having to answer "what is the price of this item" when it is clearly printed on the front of the box then being asked "what is the price of the item with tax", then followed by "what is the price if I trade in this game" etc. ad nausim

People are people, we have good days and bad days. Fact of the matter is when you deal with hundreds of people everyday, your bad days would probably outnumber your good ones.

The TTC isn't set-up for "service". It's set-up for shoveling as many people across the city as quickly as possible. It isn't something that really needs to change too much on the ground level IMO but if you were to improve service, perhaps a service phone could be installed at stations that can connect customers to translators that are trained to deal with the repetative questions.

 

[Anth]

Actually, I agree with ITComputer on this one, though he is a bit crude about it. Even Steve Munro has that opinion.

Remember the Top Reasons for Delays - where most of them were because of passengers? Or my experiences with drivers blaming passengers for not moving all the way to the back of an already overcrowded Orion VII where the tiny aisle above the steps is not designed at all for standees? (When the real problem would likely be either poor service or horrible line management). There is a tendancy to blame either congestion (when it's not always the case) or passengers for problems that the TTC either should fix, or lobby for funds to correct. I think that Gary Webster at least has a sense of what should be done (his presentations to TTC Commissioners give me this sense), I think Ducharme allowed this culture to happen at the TTC more than anyone (his resignation was about the only good thing to come out of the illegal wildcat strike of 2006), and it will take time to change amongst the middle managers.

Just this morning I happened to overhear a veteran staffer on his way to Davisville HQ venting to someone that he's completely sick to his stomach that these days the TTC reacts to service complaints by internally telling each other "the customer is lying" and abusing CIS to "prove" it to themselves. He also lamented that "the TTC used to be an organization one was proud to work for" and that "railroads[?] used to come from all over to see our subways back when I started". Ouch.

 

[nfitz]

Yes, but not everybody is an urban type or a transit geek. If potential customers aren't aware of a company's product, it's not the customer's fault.

And if we're talking about a particular bus route or fare product perhaps.

But how can one not know there is a subway under Sheppard? And if one is so completely out of touch with life, where would one advertise? I chatted with quite a few people when there was talk about closing Sheppard. Not one responded with surprise there was a subway under Sheppard! I guess if one thinks this is important, one could commission a marketing suvery to determine the awareness to such things. But I think the money would be better spent elsewhere - no point marketing a system with one hand, when on the other they keep fares high, because they can't meet the existing demand.

 

[unimaginative2]

Who is so divorced from society as to never have heard of Coca Cola? Yet they still advertise all the time. Same for McDonald's. I'd say those companies are rather successful at what they do.

Anyway, it was all over the Toronto media, but how frequently was it covered in, say, the Newmarket papers? I'd imagine there was one article on the day it opened. The TTC can't just rely on free media to get their message out and then throw out excuses that people "should" know.

 

[cassius]

If you feel you have to, go ahead.

but I'm being serious as that I feel the TTC thinks of its riders as a burden, that things would run so much better at the TTC without those pesky riders.

Heck, even bunching on the Queen streetcar line would no longer be an issue without riders.

Sorry, 299, but I also agree with ITcomputer on this. I've reduced my TTC use to a couple of times a month these days, but a rider definitely gets the feeling that they're a burden to the TTC employees quite often.