kEiThZ
Superstar
They'd also be punishing Thunder Bay if they don't pitch in. That's why I think we might actually see some pressure for them to pitch in. That's one good benefit in picking Bombardier (aside from the price).
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hkric88
Active Member
not to mention Ignatieff is a total dinosaur, the most prehistoric of which I have ever witnessed in this country. He should be in a museum.
Or maybe parliament should just be declared a museum. That way it would at least be sequitur with reality, as opposed to the doorknobs residing in it.
And I'm liberal by nature, that's why this period in Canada's history is so dismaying to me. I really think we're always going to be a joke to the rest of the developed world from now on. I've voted ever since I was old enough, but now there's no hope.
If only the politicians would spend some time on this forum to get an idea of how useless and harmful they are.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
I'm gonna get yelled at for this, but I like Stephan Dion waaaay better than Ignatieff. It's too bad the Liberals weren't the leading party with Dion at the head, because I think he would have put us off in the right direction for a new future.
nfitz
Superstar
Well, they managed to preserve our downtown airport!
But federal assistance has never been much for cities. Though Flaherty takes it to absolutely new levels. Toronto has billions of dollars of projects waiting to be funded, and what do they announce last year - nothing for Toronto, but GO service for Peterborough through Flaherty's riding - which wasn't even on GO's list of wants (though many others were). And this year, with infrastucture money coming out of the wazoo ... what do they commit to - about $60-million for Union station renovations, which they were on the hook for already, and had been for years.
I'd think that neither McGuinty or Miller are actually expecting any federal support for this ... so probably doesn't make any difference. But it's almost like they sit there and dare the electorate to throw them out.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Hey... At this time the federal government has bigger fish to fry than worrying about dealing with these two shysters.
kEiThZ
Superstar
It's a two way street though. Did anyone really expect the Tories to invest much in the 416 when they know that there's very little likelihood of winning seats? The saving grace in this situation is that the Tories might not want to alienate northern Ontarians who will be building the LRVs.
nfitz
Superstar
Yes I do. The Liberals poured money into rural ridings that they know they have no chance of winning. You don't give money based on who people voted for - that would make you another Duplessis.
grey
Senior Member
Hey... At this time the federal government has bigger fish to fry than worrying about dealing with these two shysters.
Who, their own anti-democratic leadership or their belligerent cabinet?
urbanfan89
Active Member
Why not go a step further and be like a South American banana republic, and require "donations" to the CPC to get any government service done?
"Sorry sir, you have to give $100 to the CPC coffers if you want me to process this tax refund form..."
kEiThZ
Superstar
Seriously. How much did the Liberals invest in Alberta when they were in power? The only province that constantly wins in our system of regional parties is Quebec.
And yes the Liberals didn't do all that much for Toronto either....maybe marginally more than the Conservatives but let's not pretend that they did something grand. What was the Liberal contribution to the Sheppard subway again?
kEiThZ
Superstar
I didn't say I condone the policy but that's how it works sadly. What rural ridings did the federal Liberals pour money into? And how many of them were staunch Conservative ridings that they had few electoral prospects in?
When it comes to getting transit funding in the GTHA, I think its best to leave the 416 to the province and let the feds be involved in the 905 belt where they think there are votes to be had. Let them pitch in to things like GO transit and VIVA while the province bankrolls the TTC.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Ansem
Banned
Excellent idea but since Harper's days are numbered...let's hope the liberals will do the right thing.
allabootmatt
Senior Member
So, is Queen's Park's reticence on this issue some kind of poker-faced bargaining tactic to try to drive the Feds to the table?
I can't imagine that, when push comes to shove, QP won't step in to pick up the remaining $800-million--which lets not forget amounts to very, very little per annum over the ten-year contract. Almost a rounding error, really. But I guess the problem becomes, as with MoveOntario, that if the province says up front that it will proceed with or without federal money, then Ottawa is off the hook.
Edit: more from George Smitherman, who is claiming to have been surprised by the streetcar plan. I guess it would be churlish to point out that what, six streetcar lines run through his constituency? And this thing about not entering into contracts you can't pay for is pretty rich, considering the history of this process.
He is my MPP, and I have written him. I urge you all to do the same with yours.
Did TTC put cart before the streetcar? Ontario Minister thinks so...
Posted: April 28, 2009, 4:42 PM by Allison Hanes
TTC, streetcars
The political arm-wrestling has now begun over funding for the Toronto Transit Commission's plan to buy $1.22 billion worth of new streetcars from Bomardier.
George Smitherman, Ontario’s Minister of Energy and Infrastructure, today rebuked the TTC for presenting the deal as a fait accompli – before securing money from the provincial and federal governments.
Meanwhile Mayor David Miller fired back that it would be "shocking" if senior levels of government didn't step up with cash given the potential for the award to rescue Ontario's beleaguered manufacturing sector.
Toronto has set aside a third of the purchase price, the TTC has called Ottawa and Queen’s Park to pay for the rest – and it needs an answer by 2 p.m. on June 27, the deadline to place the contract with Bombardier
“I heard the news, I was in Waterloo, ‘Oh the city have said they’re going to do the contract with Bombardier.’ And in the next breath I heard we were paying for it. So that was a bit challenging,” Mr. Smitherman said today at an event on the revitalization of Regent Park, with Mr. Miller just steps away. “I’m little bit perplexed… I’m not really accustomed to operating in an environment where you have an announcement about the acquisition of a product and the entering into of a contract, absent of the financial resources to do that.”
Last week the TTC named Bombardier as the winning bidder to build 204 low-floor, fully accessible streetcars to replace Toronto’s red rockets in the downtown core.
Already touted as the largest light rail purchase ever in North America, the award to also comes with an option to buy up to 400 more streetcars for eight brand new lines in the Transit City network.
The TTC this week approved the contract and said it will pursue upping the minimum 25% Canadian content in the vehicles – a move that has excited workers at Bombardier’s Thunder Bay plant and won a promise from Ken Lewenza, head of the beleagueredCanadian Autoworkers Union, to “camp out” on politicians doorsteps until they pledge the money.
Mr. Miller said the streetcar purchase would create manufacturing jobs for Ontario’s stricken auto parts makers as well as Bombardier workers in Thunder Bay.
“If want to stimulate the economy at a time when manufacturing industries are in decline, this is precisely the right way to use that public money to create what will become a whole new manufacturing industry,” he said. “It would be shocking to Canadians if this type of investment wasn’t made.”
The Mayor added he is “confident” a solution will be found because the contract is “too important.”
"It really depends if you want to create a Made-in-Canada manufacturing industry or not. Do you want hundreds of jobs in Thunder Bay and parts suppliers all over Southwestern Ontario – that’s the real question," he said. "How can they not?"
But Mr. Smitherman said he hopes the TTC hasn’t prematurely gotten up the hopes of Ontario’s manufacturing sector.
“I was in Thunder Bay last week and I just think that for the people that work at Bombardier they could have got a bit of a wrong impression from that announcement on Friday, because it’s a little out there,” Mr. Smitherman said. “If you can’t write the cheque, should you say that you’re entering into the contract?”
The minister also pointed out that Premier Dalton McGuinty recently announced an “unprecedented” $9 billion investment to fund 100% of the Eglinton and Finch light-rail lines, which are part of the Transit City network, as well as the Scarborough RT.
Toronto can to apply for economic stimulus money for the streetcar purchase to the provincial and federal governments by the May 1 deadline. But Mr. Smitherman suggested the city “winnow” its list of priorities to compete for scarce funds.
“[The Mayor] has previously spoken to me about me about Union Station as his priority and the Sheppard line as his priority. Well, my daddy taught me if you have 100 priorities you don’t have any,” Mr. Smitherman said. “But we leave it to them to tell us in that May 1 response, what are your top notch priorities.”
I can't imagine that, when push comes to shove, QP won't step in to pick up the remaining $800-million--which lets not forget amounts to very, very little per annum over the ten-year contract. Almost a rounding error, really. But I guess the problem becomes, as with MoveOntario, that if the province says up front that it will proceed with or without federal money, then Ottawa is off the hook.
Edit: more from George Smitherman, who is claiming to have been surprised by the streetcar plan. I guess it would be churlish to point out that what, six streetcar lines run through his constituency? And this thing about not entering into contracts you can't pay for is pretty rich, considering the history of this process.
He is my MPP, and I have written him. I urge you all to do the same with yours.
Did TTC put cart before the streetcar? Ontario Minister thinks so...
Posted: April 28, 2009, 4:42 PM by Allison Hanes
TTC, streetcars
The political arm-wrestling has now begun over funding for the Toronto Transit Commission's plan to buy $1.22 billion worth of new streetcars from Bomardier.
George Smitherman, Ontario’s Minister of Energy and Infrastructure, today rebuked the TTC for presenting the deal as a fait accompli – before securing money from the provincial and federal governments.
Meanwhile Mayor David Miller fired back that it would be "shocking" if senior levels of government didn't step up with cash given the potential for the award to rescue Ontario's beleaguered manufacturing sector.
Toronto has set aside a third of the purchase price, the TTC has called Ottawa and Queen’s Park to pay for the rest – and it needs an answer by 2 p.m. on June 27, the deadline to place the contract with Bombardier
“I heard the news, I was in Waterloo, ‘Oh the city have said they’re going to do the contract with Bombardier.’ And in the next breath I heard we were paying for it. So that was a bit challenging,” Mr. Smitherman said today at an event on the revitalization of Regent Park, with Mr. Miller just steps away. “I’m little bit perplexed… I’m not really accustomed to operating in an environment where you have an announcement about the acquisition of a product and the entering into of a contract, absent of the financial resources to do that.”
Last week the TTC named Bombardier as the winning bidder to build 204 low-floor, fully accessible streetcars to replace Toronto’s red rockets in the downtown core.
Already touted as the largest light rail purchase ever in North America, the award to also comes with an option to buy up to 400 more streetcars for eight brand new lines in the Transit City network.
The TTC this week approved the contract and said it will pursue upping the minimum 25% Canadian content in the vehicles – a move that has excited workers at Bombardier’s Thunder Bay plant and won a promise from Ken Lewenza, head of the beleagueredCanadian Autoworkers Union, to “camp out” on politicians doorsteps until they pledge the money.
Mr. Miller said the streetcar purchase would create manufacturing jobs for Ontario’s stricken auto parts makers as well as Bombardier workers in Thunder Bay.
“If want to stimulate the economy at a time when manufacturing industries are in decline, this is precisely the right way to use that public money to create what will become a whole new manufacturing industry,” he said. “It would be shocking to Canadians if this type of investment wasn’t made.”
The Mayor added he is “confident” a solution will be found because the contract is “too important.”
"It really depends if you want to create a Made-in-Canada manufacturing industry or not. Do you want hundreds of jobs in Thunder Bay and parts suppliers all over Southwestern Ontario – that’s the real question," he said. "How can they not?"
But Mr. Smitherman said he hopes the TTC hasn’t prematurely gotten up the hopes of Ontario’s manufacturing sector.
“I was in Thunder Bay last week and I just think that for the people that work at Bombardier they could have got a bit of a wrong impression from that announcement on Friday, because it’s a little out there,” Mr. Smitherman said. “If you can’t write the cheque, should you say that you’re entering into the contract?”
The minister also pointed out that Premier Dalton McGuinty recently announced an “unprecedented” $9 billion investment to fund 100% of the Eglinton and Finch light-rail lines, which are part of the Transit City network, as well as the Scarborough RT.
Toronto can to apply for economic stimulus money for the streetcar purchase to the provincial and federal governments by the May 1 deadline. But Mr. Smitherman suggested the city “winnow” its list of priorities to compete for scarce funds.
“[The Mayor] has previously spoken to me about me about Union Station as his priority and the Sheppard line as his priority. Well, my daddy taught me if you have 100 priorities you don’t have any,” Mr. Smitherman said. “But we leave it to them to tell us in that May 1 response, what are your top notch priorities.”
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fiendishlibrarian
Active Member
George Smitherman, Ontario’s Minister of Energy and Infrastructure, today rebuked the TTC for presenting the deal as a fait accompli – before securing money from the provincial and federal governments.
I think Miller is finally taking his cues from the Robert Moses Method of Getting Things Done:
"Once you sink that first stake, they'll never make you pull it up"
I think Miller is finally taking his cues from the Robert Moses Method of Getting Things Done:
"Once you sink that first stake, they'll never make you pull it up"