TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[drum118]

4422 is currently sitting in the Barns Carhouse and was out earlier on 510, based on GPS tracking.

If thing have gone 100% correct in testing, should enter service this afternoon.

4405 inside the Barn Carhouse

4413 On Route 514

4401 In The Yard

4417 lost out in the 905 and the rest are in service

 

[nfitz]

4422 is currently sitting in the Barns Carhouse and was out earlier on 510, based on GPS tracking./QUOTE]GPS tracking showed it out on 501 yesterday, but someone who actually saw it, said it wasn't in service, and had a sign on it saying it was being tested.

 

[drum118]

GPS tracking showed it out on 501 yesterday, but someone who actually saw it, said it wasn't in service, and had a sign on it saying it was being tested.

4422 was out for testing earlier and according to the tracker its in the repair sections of the Barns now, not where I last saw.

Still Time to have the car to go into service today, "IF" there is no major issues or how long it takes to deal with the issue without going back to Zero. Time will tell.

Wouldn't be surprise to see it show up on 514 when it goes into service.

 

[drum118]

Hold up. Which ruling is this? I've had a quick look in CanLII and I can't see anything that looks like that.

EDIT:
https://www.ttc.ca/TTC_Accessibilit...ce_Transit_Plan_2015/Ongoing_Plans_2015-2.jsp

says nothing about accessible streetcars on all routes in 2018. It says all routes accessible by 2019, and it is a "commitment" which is based on LFLRVs being delivered.

The current timetable based on the current delivery is to have all lines accessible by 2019 up from the plan 2018 time frame and subject to change based on delivery.

Going back as far as 2011, TTC goal was to have 505, 509, 510 & 511 100% converted to the new cars by 2014. 510 was to be 100% new cars when the line return to service after repairs to it and we know what happen on that day.

If you look at the roll out plan of 2011, you will noticed 514 wasn't on the map nor the new QQE line that was to open in 2014 and we are still waiting for it. Not having QQE is saving TTC rear at this time.

TTC plan to start rolling cars out to all routes once the 2014 conversion was completed, while continue to convert the lines as plan. The roll out of cars onto all routes before the conversion is the same process that was done for the low floor buses. This roll out of buses apply to all systems in Ontario to comply with MTO requirements to have some accessible buses on them at all time to the point some systems had posted time when an accessible bus was to show up.

Because of the various issues that take place daily on TTC streetcar routes, impossible to post times when a new car should show up. As long as TTC has 2 cars or more on all lines by 2018, TTC is complying with MTO requirements while it convert the remaining routes.

Those who call for buses to replace the new cars until the lines are converted, TTC has a bus shortage and what routes do you plan to remove buses from and tell the riders who rely on those buses that they will have a longer wait?? Are you aware there is a group of accessible riders that are prepare to bring forth leagal action come 2018 or sooner if "ALL" TTC Routes "DON'T" have the new cars on them by 2018 under the Human Right??? We know TTC has never won a Human Rights Case and would loose this case on day one, with MTO mandating cars be on the line the next day. Since TTC already knows this, that is why there is a plan to roll cars out to all routes by 2018, regardless if lines are not fully converted as plan.

The plan for conversion is a moving target based on delivery of new cars with 2017 being a tell teal as what is to happen in the coming years for the rest of the new fleet. What does TTC do come car 4459 if the failure rate hasn't improved to the 35K up from the current 18k since this a stopping point for delivery, as well, does TTC place an order for another 60 cars as plan???

Edit: The orginal date TTC Streetcar system was to be 100% accessible was 2015, but got change to 2018 during the tendering stage.

 

[drum118]

There seems to be an issue with 4422 as its doing runs from the Barns to Broadview and back as well to Main and back the last 10 hours, as well time in the service bay.

Depending on the issues, we may see it in Service Friday or the weekend now.

 

[dowlingm]

TTC plan to start rolling cars out to all routes once the 2014 conversion was completed, while continue to convert the lines as plan. The roll out of cars onto all routes before the conversion is the same process that was done for the low floor buses. This roll out of buses apply to all systems in Ontario to comply with MTO requirements to have some accessible buses on them at all time to the point some systems had posted time when an accessible bus was to show up.

Because of the various issues that take place daily on TTC streetcar routes, impossible to post times when a new car should show up. As long as TTC has 2 cars or more on all lines by 2018, TTC is complying with MTO requirements while it convert the remaining routes.

Those who call for buses to replace the new cars until the lines are converted, TTC has a bus shortage and what routes do you plan to remove buses from and tell the riders who rely on those buses that they will have a longer wait?? Are you aware there is a group of accessible riders that are prepare to bring forth leagal action come 2018 or sooner if "ALL" TTC Routes "DON'T" have the new cars on them by 2018 under the Human Right??? We know TTC has never won a Human Rights Case and would loose this case on day one, with MTO mandating cars be on the line the next day. Since TTC already knows this, that is why there is a plan to roll cars out to all routes by 2018, regardless if lines are not fully converted as plan.

Drum118: you're claiming "MTO requirements" and "Human Right". Please cite a reference for either.

 

[TransitBart]

At the end of the day. There is one overriding technical issue aside from accessibility which is a noose that the government is strangling itself with. (It's kinda' like disability insurance. We hate to pay it and can't see the point, unless we become disabled. In this case, it's a terrible complex bit of bureaucracy but if I were blind, or handicapped, it would be important to me. Nonetheless, a huge cost for all public agencies which all of us are paying for.)

The overriding issue is the pantograph. The first 60 vehicles were to have that monster trolley pole. So far they do. There will be no Flexities all over the place until and unless all the overhead is converted. My info is coming from Steve Munro's website. He has published an overhead conversion document from TTC which had a year specified for which sections of track would have upgraded overhead. They are well off the mark based on what I can see. My own section of town is near the eastern part of 506 and there are significant chunks of overhead that are trolley pole only.

Either the deployment is going to be orderly; 510, 509, 514, 511, 505, next... or there will be more trolley poles...or the TTC will use this year's (huge) government of Canada contribution to its maintenance budget backlog to finish off all the overhead conversions.

We need not speculate willy nilly.

 

[DSC]

Yes, until almost all (or all?) the system is 're-wired' the TTC have said they must continue to use trolley poles. Though pantographs can be used on 100% of Spadina they are not used because there may be an unexpected detour and to get to Spadina cars often use King - where several sections are not yet re-wired. Pantographs cannot be used on the old wiring, especially at 'junctions'. That said, the TTC are moving along quite fast on re-wiring and almost all the new poles seem to have been erected and installing the long stretches of overhead seem to be done quite fast (overnight) - often in two phases (one to run new wire and attach it to the old 'hangers' and two to install new 'hangers') . The main areas to be done now are the (more complex) junctions but here too things are moving ahead; the junction of Dundas and Victoria was finished a few weeks ago and those on Richmond will, apparently, all be done when this track is re-laid (i.e. soon.) I have not seen a recent TTC report on where they are at but we are quite a ways from seeing streetcar #60 so I would not be surprised if they are still on target for having all the overhead sorted out before it arrives.

 

[drum118]

4422 Arrived at Roncesvalles yard at noon and still there as I post this. Is this a sign its about to go into service on 514 today or part of testing??

Before I call it a night at 4am, 4422 was out in Long Branch doing test runs to the Humber Loop and back most of the night.

TTC was hoping to have pans in operation for 509, 510 by the summer, but been push back to year end. 509, 510, 511, 512, 514? are 100% ready for pans. Richmond will be 100% ready when works start for the track work and reinstalling the overhead. TTC is installing new poles east of Yonge for Richmond.

Keep forgetting to check Victoria, Church, Parliament intersections to see if the intersections have been rebuilt for Pans. Most of King & Queen line is upgraded to pans. Roncesvalles Yard is about 50% converted to Pans and the rest will be done by year end.

505 is not even close to having pans with intersections not done in most places. Sames goes for 506 in the west end.

By the time 4435 or 4459 arrives, very few areas may remain requiring conversion, but it will not stop having pans in service on the system. Easy to move the pole cars to those routes not converted and use pans only cars on the lines that are ready for them.

 

[pstogios]

Drum118: you're claiming "MTO requirements" and "Human Right". Please cite a reference for either.

You're just supposed to believe him.

 

[nfitz]

Sames goes for 506 in the west end.

Presumably this is changing with no 506 streetcar service in the west end for month. Which presumably is what they've been waiting for.

 

[drum118]

Presumably this is changing with no 506 streetcar service in the west end for month. Which presumably is what they've been waiting for.

Howard Park & Landowne intersections, as well as 505 & 506 junction need to be rebuilt, including the line between them.

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

. Richmond will be 100% ready when works start for the track work and reinstalling the overhead. TTC is installing new poles east of Yonge for Richmond.

You mean WEST of Yonge? EAST of Yonge already has new poles. There were old poles on the north side west of Yonge sitting on the edge of the Hudson Bay basement.

 

[Markster]

You're just supposed to believe him.

Last time I looked into this in this thread:

I must say, I don't see where it says that 100% of vehicles at all times, must be accessible, no exceptions:
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/110191#BK35

And it's pretty clear that the existing streetcars are not being made totally illegal:

Transition, existing vehicles
40. (1) Conventional transportation service providers are not required to retrofit vehicles that are within their fleet as of July 1, 2011 in order to ensure that the vehicles meet the accessibility requirements of sections 53 to 62. O. Reg. 191/11, s. 40 (1).

At best, I imagine that the TTC has an Accessibility Plan to convert the streetcar lines to accessible vehicles, because that is following the spirit of the law, and they're doing their best to make that happen in a timely manner. Frankly, my reading of the law itself seems to indicate that the existing streetcars are forever exempt, and that WheelTrans is an acceptable solution, at least for meeting the bare-minimum.
The TTC is working to improve things well beyond that bare minimum, and I really don't see where it says that they flat out cannot use the old streetcars in occasional service in perpetuity.

It's plausible that there's some court ruling that extends the reach of the law.
It's quite likely that in the future, the law will be even more strict about the accessibility.

But for now, the TTC has a plan in place, and is working on it as fast as their supplier's problems allow.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Just curious where do you think the TTC will put Canadian flags on the flexs once the trolley piles are gone from them?