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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

KevinT said:
I suspect they want to do the first post-shipment application of power under controlled and monitorable conditions, i.e. with bench power rather than straight off the catenary. There's probably also a lot of 'remove before use' safety covers and interlocks that need to be pulled before they can even do that, and the maintenance pits and catwalks at Leslie are the ideal place to handle that sort of thing.

Edit: Of course if the other Flexities left Hillcrest under their own power (I haven't been paying attention long enough to know) then I'm completely out to lunch. Nfitz' point that it was likely done to beat the intersection closure makes perfect sense.
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That's exactly what it is.

Most of the streetcars now in service had their PDIs and testing performed at Hillcrest. The last 3 or 4 have had them done at Leslie, and until such a time as it gets to be too full or busy, they will continue to be there for the foreseeable future.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
drum118 said:
Since the ridership is light on 509 and the push for 514, TTC will push as many new cars onto 514 until there is 10 of them late this year. The goal still remain to have 510 100% new cars, then move to 509 after 514 is done and then onto 511. As it been stated, one hand said something one day, then the other say something different a few days later that cause confusion, because the 2 hands don't talk to each other in the first place. Everything is a moving target and take things with a grain of salt until you see it.
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That seems to be the ever changing question where will they be deployed next. Some reports say route by route others say after 514 and 510 are 100% then they will be pit out across the board with one or two on each route. Personally I see them going with the later now as they have already begun thath with putting one on 514 opening day.

I think if there hadn't been production delays they would have stuck with the route by route roll out but with the current schedule it almost makes more sense to put them out on all routes as soon as they have them ready for them.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
That seems to be the ever changing question where will they be deployed next. Some reports say route by route others say after 514 and 510 are 100% then they will be pit out across the board with one or two on each route. Personally I see them going with the later now as they have already begun thath with putting one on 514 opening day.

I think if there hadn't been production delays they would have stuck with the route by route roll out but with the current schedule it almost makes more sense to put them out on all routes as soon as they have them ready for them.
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The latest official word from the TTC via Brad and elsewhere does NOT have them being put on all routes. I'm not sure on whether 514 or 509 will be first to get up to 100%, and I'm not sure whether it will go 511>505>etc per the original schedule after that or if, say, 504 and 501 will now take priority, but I'm certain that I haven't heard any official source say they're putting 1 or 2 on every route now.

I'm relatively sure that it's 514/509>511>505>remaining per original schedule but I agree that it has become a bit unclear. That said I'm not sure where the "1 or 2 on every route after 509 and 514 are done" rumour came from in the last few days...
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
That seems to be the ever changing question where will they be deployed next. Some reports say route by route others say after 514 and 510 are 100% then they will be pit out across the board with one or two on each route. Personally I see them going with the later now as they have already begun thath with putting one on 514 opening day.

I think if there hadn't been production delays they would have stuck with the route by route roll out but with the current schedule it almost makes more sense to put them out on all routes as soon as they have them ready for them.
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That's stupid if they put one here and there. They don't have to convert every car on the entire route but they have to so a certain percentage of them before moving on to another route. They can do one Flexity for every 3 CLRVs and then reduce it to 1 new for every 2 old and so on. They need to plan this out so they can reduce the new of cars operating on a route and maintain the same capacity. Otherwise if they run a new car as a scheduled CLRV, they're just wasting electricity with unnecessary capacity available.

The 514 schedule was design for Flexity's to improve capacity on King, so eventually they'll convert that line. The 509 on the other hand doesn't need that capacity at the moment. The 509 would probably run with more new cars during the EX. Brad is saying a second new car would be added to the 514 in September.
 
Steve X said:
That's stupid if they put one here and there. They don't have to convert every car on the entire route but they have to so a certain percentage of them before moving on to another route. They can do one Flexity for every 3 CLRVs and then reduce it to 1 new for every 2 old and so on. They need to plan this out so they can reduce the new of cars operating on a route and maintain the same capacity. Otherwise if they run a new car as a scheduled CLRV, they're just wasting electricity with unnecessary capacity available.

The 514 schedule was design for Flexity's to improve capacity on King, so eventually they'll convert that line. The 509 on the other hand doesn't need that capacity at the moment. The 509 would probably run with more new cars during the EX. Brad is saying a second new car would be added to the 514 in September.
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Yes, you are correct, the Flexities cannot just be scattered about like confetti and really need a proper deployment plan so that those who actually need accessible streetcars can have some hope of catching one (even if only one car in 2 or 3) on the routes which have them and so that the capacity issues are properly covered too. I doubt strongly that there is any significant difference in the electricity cost to power a Flexity or a CLRV so I doubt that is factored into any plan the TTC has - the main cost of transit is the operator..
 
DSC said:
Yes, you are correct, the Flexities cannot just be scattered about like confetti and really need a proper deployment plan so that those who actually need accessible streetcars can have some hope of catching one (even if only one car in 2 or 3) on the routes which have them and so that the capacity issues are properly covered too. I doubt strongly that there is any significant difference in the electricity cost to power a Flexity or a CLRV so I doubt that is factored into any plan the TTC has - the main cost of transit is the operator..
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Yeah there is a electricity cost to them. They weight like 48,200 kg oppose to a 22,685 kg CLRV. Just moving it would require more energy with more than twice it's weight. Then there is AC and all the computer systems and draws more electricity so they are upgrading the overhead to support them.

They'll eventually notice it like the TRs draw more electricity which needs to be budgeted. Same thing for the artic buses taking much more fuel and couldn't do as many trips as a standard bus on a tank. They all need to be calculated at the end as they need to pay for the bill.
 
How many kilowatt-hours does a CLRV consume during a daily operator shift, compared to the salary of the operator? How many for the Flexity?

What is the marginal cost for the TTC for each kilowatt-hour?

I don't know the answers to this question, but based on the answers it could be true that they draw twice as much power, but still don't have a significant difference!
 
Steve X said:
Yeah there is a electricity cost to them. They weight like 48,200 kg oppose to a 22,685 kg CLRV. Just moving it would require more energy with more than twice it's weight. Then there is AC and all the computer systems and draws more electricity so they are upgrading the overhead to support them.

They'll eventually notice it like the TRs draw more electricity which needs to be budgeted. Same thing for the artic buses taking much more fuel and couldn't do as many trips as a standard bus on a tank. They all need to be calculated at the end as they need to pay for the bill.
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Weight of the vehicle has almost zero relation to the amount of power that it uses or draws.

In the case of the TRs, they draw almost 15% less power than a T1 despite having much more installed power and weighing 15,000lbs more (for a 6-car train).

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
Weight of the vehicle has almost zero relation to the amount of power that it uses or draws.

In the case of the TRs, they draw almost 15% less power than a T1 despite having much more installed power and weighing 15,000lbs more (for a 6-car train).

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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Indeed, let's not forget that newer equipment is generally MUCH more energy efficient. I wouldn't be surprised it even with the extra weight, size, and AC the Flexities use very similar power to the CLRVs and likely even less than the ALRVs.

...damn, now I'm really curious about this!
 
And all that extra weight delivers most of the the extra acceleration power back to the overhead when braking.

- Paul
 
DSC said:
Yes, you are correct, the Flexities cannot just be scattered about like confetti and really need a proper deployment plan so that those who actually need accessible streetcars can have some hope of catching one (even if only one car in 2 or 3) on the routes which have them and so that the capacity issues are properly covered too.
Click to expand...

I don't see why they can't keep in mind by the old schedule they should have finished 510, 509 and 511 by now and started having them on 504 at this point. Unless we want to wait another 10 years until they put them on other routes I can definitely see them start to assign one or two per route as more come in.
 
Any Day now, we will see 4422 entering service for the first time if no failures have taken place. Should be in service by Thursday at the latest with no failures.

The plan was to get 509, 510, and 511 100% before starting to roll out 2 cars to the rest of the route and making the next line 100% before moving to the next line before this mess. There was talk that some routes could see as many as 4 before the full conversion.

I expect to see cars roll out to other routes in pairs starting in 2017 and after 510 & 514 is 100% new cars. More cars will be added to 509 to bring it up to 100% and start working on 511 full conversion in 2017.

No idea at this time what will happen when 4459 shows up and the failure rate is still below the line that the failures are to meet in the first place. Its also the time TTC is to place an order for 60 more cars.

Richmond is getting new poles and will be rewire for pans when track work takes place.

I don't know if others have noticed this, but every locations where TTC has used pole bars to support the new overhead, they are different. St Clair being generation one is totally different from everything to the point Cherry St ROW that could be generation 4 is different from Queens Quay to Dufferin Loop. Where wires are strung from poles, they are the same hanger system wide
 
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