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SmartTrack (Proposed)

I felt a lot better about the Eglinton issue when I found that bullet on page 23 referring to the 'base case'. Its presence seems to suggest that everybody (except perhaps Mr Tory and his minions) agrees that an Eglinton LRT is still the notional best option.

Remember, politics is the art of making a 180 degree turn in 1 degree increments. Getting Tory off an Eglinton heavy rail plan will require a successsion of reports with a constantly moving set of parameters. Much as we might want Tory to go down in flames for his ridiculous Eglinton idea, that's not how politics is played. He must be given a way to save face.

Am I the only one distressed by how the map shows transit planning for Toronto as basically one big U? Why is Eglinton the northernmost east-west tie line? I'm still convinced a substantial east--west link on Finch or Sheppard (or, in the big picture, Steeles) is needed?

- Paul
 
TheTigerMaster said:
The Eglinton ST alignment is objectively stupid, and the only reason it's being considered is because it was part of Tory's platform. Hopefully next month's report will come back with something more resonable (like an ECLRT extension in dedicated ROW).
Click to expand...

Serving the Airport Corporate Centre with heavy rail going through Woodbine is equally stupid. Just extend the Eglinton transit, grade-separated, from Mount Dennis to Mississauga and everyone is happy.
SmartTrack would then serve the Rexdale area - perhaps the worst served area in Toronto.
 
crs1026 said:
I felt a lot better about the Eglinton issue when I found that bullet on page 23 referring to the 'base case'. Its presence seems to suggest that everybody (except perhaps Mr Tory and his minions) agrees that an Eglinton LRT is still the notional best option.

Remember, politics is the art of making a 180 degree turn in 1 degree increments. Getting Tory off an Eglinton heavy rail plan will require a successsion of reports with a constantly moving set of parameters. Much as we might want Tory to go down in flames for his ridiculous Eglinton idea, that's not how politics is played. He must be given a way to save face.

Am I the only one distressed by how the map shows transit planning for Toronto as basically one big U? Why is Eglinton the northernmost east-west tie line? I'm still convinced a substantial east--west link on Finch or Sheppard (or, in the big picture, Steeles) is needed?

- Paul
Click to expand...
Going back to my 2006 Master Transit Plan for the GTHA, I called for LRT to be on Finch, Sheppard and Steeles from end to end in Toronto. Sheppard would end up at Pickering Mall in the east and the Airport in the west. Steeles West would end up at Shoppers World.

Eglinton was both LRT and subway going from end to end with the east using Kingston Rd to get to Pickering. The west would end up at Sq One with a branch line to the airport.

To get off the rail corridor and onto Eglinton will require most of Mount Dennis to be bulldoze to get the curve in at grade. Even trying to tunnel will see almost the same effect. The best option is to extend the Crosstown Line as plan to the airport.

Ridership numbers will not support heavy rail along Eglinton as Tory thinks it can. Only 14-17,000 people are going to the core based on 2008 numbers from MTO.

The U needs to end at Steeles if it going to try to deal with Young overcrowding today, let alone by 2050. Regardless if the U is built to Steeles, a 2nd Yonge line will be require come 2050 based on the plan development on Yonge alone that on the books. If one looks at the rest of Yonge not on the books, double what is plan for it. You start adding in 1-5 blocks on either side of Yonge, Ridership will fill up the Yonge Lines itself, let alone riders miles away who want to use the line.

When I did my 2006 plan, I had never seen or read reports on the various plans proposed for Toronto.
 
drum118 said:
The U needs to end at Steeles if it going to try to deal with Young overcrowding today, let alone by 2050. Regardless if the U is built to Steeles, a 2nd Yonge line will be require come 2050 based on the plan development on Yonge alone that on the books. If one looks at the rest of Yonge not on the books, double what is plan for it. You start adding in 1-5 blocks on either side of Yonge, Ridership will fill up the Yonge Lines itself, let alone riders miles away who want to use the line.

When I did my 2006 plan, I had never seen or read reports on the various plans proposed for Toronto.
Click to expand...
I have thought that the core part of the Yonge line may eventually need to be doubled up in about 50 years, or at least an overlapped U doing Bay-Church or Bay-Jarvis or Bay-Bathhurst (in addition to the DRL!!)

I was wondering, however. Are there cities with 4 track subways along the same route, perhaps for express-allstop service?
 
crs1026 said:
I felt a lot better about the Eglinton issue when I found that bullet on page 23 referring to the 'base case'. Its presence seems to suggest that everybody (except perhaps Mr Tory and his minions) agrees that an Eglinton LRT is still the notional best option.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping that they'll also examine the possibility of some kind of LRT rapid transit line. Basically an LRT line with stops at major intersections (Royal York, Islington, Kipling, etc...) that doesn't have to interact with street traffic.

crs1026 said:
Am I the only one distressed by how the map shows transit planning for Toronto as basically one big U? Why is Eglinton the northernmost east-west tie line? I'm still convinced a substantial east--west link on Finch or Sheppard (or, in the big picture, Steeles) is needed?
Click to expand...

Um, I'm sure you know this, but we do have the Finch West LRT as a substantial east/west link.
 
BurlOak said:
Serving the Airport Corporate Centre with heavy rail going through Woodbine is equally stupid. Just extend the Eglinton transit, grade-separated, from Mount Dennis to Mississauga and everyone is happy.
SmartTrack would then serve the Rexdale area - perhaps the worst served area in Toronto.
Click to expand...

Fingers crossed that the examination of SmartTrack alignments won't be an either/or analysis (either Eglinton OR rail corridor). Extending the ECLRT and terminating ST in Rexdale is clearly the best solution
 
drum118 said:
The U needs to end at Steeles if it going to try to deal with Young overcrowding today, let alone by 2050. Regardless if the U is built to Steeles, a 2nd Yonge line will be require come 2050 based on the plan development on Yonge alone that on the books. If one looks at the rest of Yonge not on the books, double what is plan for it. You start adding in 1-5 blocks on either side of Yonge, Ridership will fill up the Yonge Lines itself, let alone riders miles away who want to use the line.
Click to expand...

I doubt even the DRL will be fully built by 2050, so the idea that we will also need a second Yonge line is a scary thought. Not only that, but the existing Yonge line will become as old and shabby as the subways in NYC, so at some point it will require major intervention just to remain functional let alone last for another few decades.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I'm hoping that they'll also examine the possibility of some kind of LRT rapid transit line. Basically an LRT line with stops at major intersections (Royal York, Islington, Kipling, etc...) that doesn't have to interact with street traffic.
Click to expand...

I bet Scarboro would be pretty cheesed if the City supported that. We voted down having grade-separated LRT on Eglinton East connecting Malvern to Mt Dennis with one long continuous line, but support a costly grade-separate solution for Eglinton West (with a mere fraction of the ridership)? I think that would definitely add more fuel to their Sheppard Subway cause - which seems more and more like it will be coming back to haunt us.
 
44 North said:
I bet Scarboro would be pretty cheesed if the City supported that. We voted down having grade-separated LRT on Eglinton East connecting Malvern to Mt Dennis with one long continuous line, but support a costly grade-separate solution for Eglinton West (with a mere fraction of the ridership)? I think that would definitely add more fuel to their Sheppard Subway cause - which seems more and more like it will be coming back to haunt us.
Click to expand...

I never said grade separated ;)

What I described would be at grade. Think of something similar to Allen Road.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Um, I'm sure you know this, but we do have the Finch West LRT as a substantial east/west link.
Click to expand...

Yes, and it's certainly a start....but its funded east end is only at the Spadina line, which is hardly cross-town.

Extend it over to Vic Park, or beyond, and I'm a happy camper :)

- Paul
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I never said grade separated ;)
What I described would be at grade. Think of something similar to Allen Road.
Click to expand...
If it's an LRT, it would be far more similar to Spadina Ave than ugly Allen (but with larger stop spacing, faster, and using pantograph rather than trolleypole). Fencing would not necessarily be needed.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I'm hoping that they'll also examine the possibility of some kind of LRT rapid transit line. Basically an LRT line with stops at major intersections (Royal York, Islington, Kipling, etc...) that doesn't have to interact with street traffic.



Um, I'm sure you know this, but we do have the Finch West LRT as a substantial east/west link.
Click to expand...

The Finch West LRT is terminating at Finch West station on the University-Spadina line.

There are currently no plans to extend it to Finch Station on the Yonge line.

Phase 2 has no funding and no plans to be completed within the Big Move.

http://torontoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/20120316finch2.jpg
 
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