SmartTrack (Proposed)

[44 North]

I never said grade separated

What I described would be at grade. Think of something similar to Allen Road.

Hmm. But I believe that section of the Spadina line is still considered "grade-separate", even though it's roughly at the same grade/level as Allen Rd. As well, Allen Rd is pretty much grade-separated from the street network, so do you mean having Eglinton Ave West become something similar (i.e - a quasi expressway trenched below N/S cross streets)?

But my point was more about this Eglinton spur/Crosstown West in general. It's weird how it's become such a priority. My view is that if we do have a higher per km cost than Eglinton East's surface portion, and put the effort into having the line go over/under cross streets, it will probably be seen as unfair to those in East York and Scarboro.

 

[ShonTron]

But my point was more about this Eglinton spur/Crosstown West in general. It's weird how it's become such a priority.

Because a few connected developers and "experts" created a corridor to serve suburban office lands, then sold John Tory's team on it. The Markham/Scarborough section is solid, as it follows the existing Stouffville GO Corridor. The Etobicoke/Mississauga much less so, as it relied on bad planning based on assumptions and Google Maps. SRRA planned it to even beyond the Airport Corporate Centre; it would have gone all the way to Meadowvale Corporate Centre at Mississauga Road.

John Tory's team, backed by some of the corporate interests involved in this plan, latched onto the idea as an easy win that they figured could be built quickly, and gave it a catchy brand name.

I wrote about it, so did Steve Munro and the Toronto Star.

 

[ehlow]

Personally I think a good bus line is enough for Eglinton west for now. Can go Mt Dennis-Eglinton to Pearson along Eglinton west.

I'd rather see rapid transit money go towards the Relief line.

 

[ssiguy2]

A grade separated system can be elevated, at ground level, or underground as long as it has complete separation from all roads, pedestrians, bikes etc.

The golden rule..............if it can be automated then it is considered a grade separated system aka Metro, subway.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Huh? The definition has nothing to do with whether a system can be automated or not. Who made that supposed golden rule up?

AoD

 

[Rainforest]

But my point was more about this Eglinton spur/Crosstown West in general. It's weird how it's become such a priority. My view is that if we do have a higher per km cost than Eglinton East's surface portion, and put the effort into having the line go over/under cross streets, it will probably be seen as unfair to those in East York and Scarboro.

I never saw or heard anybody in Scarboro complain about Eglinton East not being fully grade-separated. Fair or not, the design of that section is not on the public's mind.

The formal justification for the difference in design is that Eglinton West will connect to the large employment hub and the airport, and therefore operate more as a point-to-point service and less as local transit.

Not sure if anyone will even bother to ask for justification.

 

[Rainforest]

It should be rather easy for John Tory to change the course on the western portion of SmartTrack, and adopt a continuation of LRT along Eglinton West instead of the SmartTrack spur.

Yes, his election platform had the SmartTrack spur. But he had never spoken publicly in favor of such spur over all alternatives, and there is no strong public sentiment in favor of either solution.

He has to be careful with Scarboro subway, and he had to be careful with Gardiner. But if he changes the course on Eglinton West, he won't lose any votes.

If he makes the western section of Eglinton LRT somewhat faster than in the original Transit City proposal, he can even claim a victory on two counts: saved time for the riders, and saved quite a bit in capital costs.

 

[ssiguy2]

I think cooler heads will prevail and he will extend the Eglinton LRT to Renforth. It is a relatively short trip so the time difference would not be anything significant and would be more useful as both a cross-town route and a connection to both Miss, and Pearson.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I never saw or heard anybody in Scarboro complain about Eglinton East not being fully grade-separated. Fair or not, the design of that section is not on the public's mind.

The formal justification for the difference in design is that Eglinton West will connect to the large employment hub and the airport, and therefore operate more as a point-to-point service and less as local transit.

Not sure if anyone will even bother to ask for justification.

The formal justification will also be that Eglinton West has a lot of space for a dedicated rail corridor.

 

[robmausser]

It should be rather easy for John Tory to change the course on the western portion of SmartTrack, and adopt a continuation of LRT along Eglinton West instead of the SmartTrack spur.

Yes, his election platform had the SmartTrack spur. But he had never spoken publicly in favor of such spur over all alternatives, and there is no strong public sentiment in favor of either solution.

He has to be careful with Scarboro subway, and he had to be careful with Gardiner. But if he changes the course on Eglinton West, he won't lose any votes.

If he makes the western section of Eglinton LRT somewhat faster than in the original Transit City proposal, he can even claim a victory on two counts: saved time for the riders, and saved quite a bit in capital costs.

Tory has literally been quoted saying that the Smarttrack map he had created for his campaign was simply a proposal, and the actual method and technologies, and even station locations had not been worked out. It was just a concept.

So I don't think it would be hard for him to say that the Eglinton Spur will now be LRT, as he had basically said that his Smarttrack proposal was just showing where transit will be built. Just a line on a map.

 

[nfitz]

So I don't think it would be hard for him to say that the Eglinton Spur will now be LRT, as he had basically said that his Smarttrack proposal was just showing where transit will be built. Just a line on a map.

I agree. And it really all comes down to the forecast demand.

However, given if the forecast 2031 AM peak eastbound for the LRT was only 400 leaving Renforth station and 1,500 at Islington, it's really hard to justify either, compared to the 3,500 eastbound at Mount Dennis.

 

[robmausser]

I agree. And it really all comes down to the forecast demand.

However, given if the forecast 2031 AM peak eastbound for the LRT was only 400 leaving Renforth station and 1,500 at Islington, it's really hard to justify either, compared to the 3,500 eastbound at Mount Dennis.

I wonder what demand would be like if they connected the LRT to Pearson, if that would change the demand.

Basically this map

I do agree that anything else but an at-grade LRT in an on street ROW is overkill for the area.

 

[CDL.TO]

The formal justification will also be that Eglinton West has a lot of space for a dedicated rail corridor.

But it doesn't.

 

[nfitz]

I wonder what demand would be like if they connected the LRT to Pearson, if that would change the demand.

That 400 passengers an hour did assume that it WAS completed to Pearson. Though very few at all originated from Pearson during AM peak. The flow to Pearson is actually higher during AM peak.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

But it doesn't.

Last time I was there (a few weeks ago) a lot of the lands on the Richview Corridor were yet to be developed. The City would have to buy the land back and demolish the little that has been built there so far. Once that is done there should be more than enough room. The corridor is designed to fit an Allen Road-style transit ROW.