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Ontario Liberals and Transit

nfitz said:
Don't read too much into that. I was rushing, and at first glance it looked the same. Now I've got some time, I'm looking closer, and I'm realising the video is there. It's still not saying much ... it's not Hudak's words, but a CBC-TV piece. There's no mention of Eglinton in the TV piece. What a waste of time listening to that. What were Hudak's exact words?

No it isn't. They have awarded 2 smalller tunneling contracts for about $500 million for 3 big tunnel segments, of which one is well underway, one isn't started (Allen to Yonge), and one they are just starting he enabling works (Yonge to Brentcliffe). However the big contract of about $4 billion for the stations, track, power, etc. is only to be awarded late this year, or early 2015. They could easily complete the relatively small contract for the tunnels, and defer the main contract for years. They could even cancel the two remaining tunnel segments, pay a penalty, and end up with a short tunnel from Allen to Keele and then mothball that for future use.

There's no way he's going to cut spending, to try and eliminate the deficit as fast as possible, so he can cut taxes ... and also drop $4 billion in a few months on the Eglinton LRT line. It has to be deferred for the Tories spending plan to work.
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The Crosstown will be completed. No one is that foolish to cancel it at this point. If Hudak gets into power, I seriously doubt he would shut it down. If anything, he would probably try to make it almost all underground. The Crosstown will open come 2020.
 
StevieD said:
The Crosstown will be completed. No one is that foolish to cancel it at this point. If Hudak gets into power, I seriously doubt he would shut it down. If anything, he would probably try to make it almost all underground. The Crosstown will open come 2020.
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What's your basis for this - especially the timeframe. It's in contradiction to Hudak's own words about not spending on transit projects until the deficit is eliminated, and the relief line being the main project for Toronto.

Completed eventually ... sure.

$4 billion contract to complete line awarded as scheduled in late 2014 early 2015? Surely Hudak has said a lot that implies this isn't the case.
 
nfitz said:
Don't read too much into that. I was rushing, and at first glance it looked the same. Now I've got some time, I'm looking closer, and I'm realising the video is there. It's still not saying much ... it's not Hudak's words, but a CBC-TV piece. There's no mention of Eglinton in the TV piece. What a waste of time listening to that. What were Hudak's exact words?

No it isn't. They have awarded 2 smalller tunneling contracts for about $500 million for 3 big tunnel segments, of which one is well underway, one isn't started (Allen to Yonge), and one they are just starting he enabling works (Yonge to Brentcliffe). However the big contract of about $4 billion for the stations, track, power, etc. is only to be awarded late this year, or early 2015. They could easily complete the relatively small contract for the tunnels, and defer the main contract for years. They could even cancel the two remaining tunnel segments, pay a penalty, and end up with a short tunnel from Allen to Keele and then mothball that for future use.

There's no way he's going to cut spending, to try and eliminate the deficit as fast as possible, so he can cut taxes ... and also drop $4 billion in a few months on the Eglinton LRT line. It has to be deferred for the Tories spending plan to work.
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Fair enough nfitz, but why cancel it now? Would that not hurt him at the ballot box next time?
 
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denfromoakvillemilton said:
Fair enough nfitz, but why cancel it now? Would that not hurt him at the ballot box next time?
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It won't be cancelled but it may well be delayed for 5 or more years.

Second Ave subway wasn't cancelled in the 70's either, just deferred until finances were more agreeable 30 years later.
 
rbt said:
It won't be cancelled but it may well be delayed for 5 or more years.

Second Ave subway wasn't cancelled in the 70's either, just deferred until finances were more agreeable 30 years later.
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But Hudak has said he would put as much as Eglinton under ground as possible.....doesn't sound delayed or cancelled.
 
TOareaFan said:
But Hudak has said he would put as much as Eglinton under ground as possible.....doesn't sound delayed or cancelled.
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Then he would most likely just defer the eastern surface section, or simply just keep on putting off awarding the contracts for it, until finances are better, remember he said he would start investing $2B a year in transit when the budget is balanced, although that is probably a lie too.
 
TOareaFan said:
But Hudak has said he would put as much as Eglinton under ground as possible.....doesn't sound delayed or cancelled.
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Huh? It sounds exactly like delayed (or truncated).

1) Either it's truncated so only the currently proposed tunnelled portion gets built or,

2) Tendering is delayed to re-open the EA/engineering/etc. This adds a minimum of 2 years to the timeline if a design+build+operate tender is wanted, and it's clear that Hudak wishes to go this route based on privatization statements.

A 2 year delay may mean funding it during a recession (typically every 7 to 8 years).
 
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On the Agenda transit debate the conservative MP said they would not cancel Eglinton, Waterloo, or Ottawa, they would cancel all the LRTs that have not started construction.

I'm sure someone will say "they are lying" or something like that, all I'm saying is that they've clearly said they do not intend to cancel Eglinton. Whether you believe them or not is up to you, obviously.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Fair enough nfitz, but why cancel it now?
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Because the contract for the big spend of $4 billion doesn't get signed for a few months, with the bulk of spending between 2015 and 2019. Cancelling this, and deferring it for 5-10 years pushes it out past where it would impact the deficit, and allows you to cut taxes.

denfromoakvillemilton said:
Would that not hurt him at the ballot box next time?
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In Central Toronto ... perhap, but given Tories don't tend to win seats there. For the rest of the province where he can actually win seats - screwing Toronto and lowering income taxes instead? Probably not.

TOareaFan said:
But Hudak has said he would put as much as Eglinton under ground as possible.....doesn't sound delayed or cancelled.
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Doesn't sound not delayed. Given he's the one who has to sign off on the $4 billion (if he wins a majority government), and he's already said that there won't be spending on underground transit until the budget is balanced; and he's also said that the Relief Line get's priority ... then it sounds very delayed to me.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I suppose there's an argument to be made in favour of an NDP-PC coalition. They could say that a majority of voters do not trust the Liberals and that the coalition would better represent the citizens of the province.

I don't think this will be happening. For the NDP to swing so far right that they're supporting a conservative government would kill the credibility of the party. They'll be seen as standing for nothing and would quickly lose much of their support base to the Liberals or Greens.
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I wonder if we could see the rise of a Green Party much like in Australia in this scenario. :eek:
 
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