Ontario Liberals and Transit

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I would be interesting to see how one equates the old Davis Red Tories to the current Hudak conservatives.

AoD

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I would be interesting to see how one equates the old Davis Red Tories to the current Hudak conservatives.

AoD

I would too.

 

[JasonParis]

I would be interesting to see how one equates the old Davis Red Tories to the current Hudak conservatives.AoD

I think of my own Uncle Ken when using these comparisons. He's a "True Blue" Davis Tory for as long as I can remember. However, he moved more Liberal with the second Harris government and definitely so federally when the PC party was folded into the current Conservative party. He now largely votes Liberal (even if he wishes they were fiscally more right) and can't stomach the likes of Harper, Hudak and Ford with their sloganeering and simpleton messages (and sometimes backwards social policies too). I'm sure there's thousands (maybe even hundreds of thousands) of people just like my Uncle Ken who don't quite feel they have a home in politics anymore.

 

[nfitz]

I would be interesting to see how one equates the old Davis Red Tories to the current Hudak conservatives.

A candid interview with Tory Bill Davis would be fascinating. NDP Bob Rae for that matter too. I wouldn't be surprised if both of them now quietly support Liberal Wynne.

 

[JasonParis]

That would be my guess. I'd also agree that there's little chance of them saying so, especially in Davis' case.

 

[MisterF]

shhhh we learned above that people who call themselves conservative can't get along with other people and always have short minority governments......throwing out two long lasting "exceptions" is gonna have people doubting that.

Davis and Hudak are both conservatives in the same way that an F-22 and a blimp are both aircraft.

 

[1overcosc]

YES, YES, YES. The Big Blue Machine PCs of old are much more similar to the modern Liberals than they are to the Harris/Hudak PCs.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say on Leslie Frost, the Conservative premier of Ontario from 1949 to 1961.

"Frost's government oversaw great expansion in the role of government. Under his leadership, Ontario greatly expanded its schools, highways and hospitals. His government substantially increased public investment in the economy, as well as through strong fiscal policies. Under his leadership Ontario created the 400 series of superhighways, most notably the Macdonald-Cartier Freeway better known as Highway 401. His government also attempted to wrest control of the income tax from the federal government, but failed, resulting in the introduction of a provincial sales tax. The Frost government introduced public hospital insurance to the province which would be expanded by his successors to become the modern OHIP system of medicare.

His government oversaw substantial expansion in public services. The number of universities in Ontario increased from four to twelve. As finance minister in 1943, the total provincial investment in education was just over $13 million. Upon his retirement in 1961, the education budget for Ontario was $250 million.

The government of Leslie Frost was the first to pass laws providing penalties for racial, ethnic, and gender discrimination on private property; these laws, introduced in the early 1950s as the Fair Employment Practices Act and Fair Accommodation Practices Act, started a movement in Ontario politics that produced the Ontario Human Rights Code in 1962 and later legislation. Frost's government also introduced legislation to ensure women received equal wages. His government also introduced voting rights for First Nations."

If he was alive today, he'd vote Liberal.

 

[TOareaFan]

Now try comparing that to Hudak.

Of course we will never know how Frost or Davis would have governed if the provincial debt to GDP was as out of whack as it is now and we will never know if they would have kept expanding/building if the province was now running a deficit bigger than the other 9 provinces and the federal government.....combined.

Context is important after all. Even Hudak has said he will spend $2B on transit infrastructure....he just will wait until we balance the books.

 

[nfitz]

Even Hudak has said he will spend $2B on transit infrastructure....he just will wait until we balance the books.

Given they are scheduled to issue the ~$4 billion contract for the Eglinton line stations and track in a few months, how is he going to wait until we balance the books?

 

[TOareaFan]

Given they are scheduled to issue the ~$4 billion contract for the Eglinton line stations and track in a few months, how is he going to wait until we balance the books?

I guess that would depend on what the cash flows are.......how that ~$4B gets spent and over what length of time.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Of course we will never know how Frost or Davis would have governed if the provincial debt to GDP was as out of whack as it is now and we will never know if they would have kept expanding/building if the province was now running a deficit bigger than the other 9 provinces and the federal government.....combined.

Context is important after all. Even Hudak has said he will spend $2B on transit infrastructure....he just will wait until we balance the books.

Yeah, would Davis or Frost promise corporate and personal tax cuts in the manner Hudak (and to be honest, going before that to Harris) proposed? Highly doubtful.

I guess that would depend on what the cash flows are.......how that ~$4B gets spent and over what length of time.

Then perhaps he should just come out and say THAT instead of making vacuous promises. One shouldn't have to "guess" what he will do. It's funny that conservative is supposed to meant "slow and steady" - not wild swings in policies the current brand proposes.

Now that said, I do think that these transit expansions should be funded via a new and dedicated local/regional tax - but of course, everyone wanted transit that they don't have to pay for.

AoD

 

[Adjei]

New polling numbers just before the debate:

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/06/02/libs-seven-points-ahead-of-tories-poll

 

[Palma]

Given they are scheduled to issue the ~$4 billion contract for the Eglinton line stations and track in a few months, how is he going to wait until we balance the books?

Well perhaps, he will stop the tendering. Can he do it?

 

[rbt]

Well perhaps, he will stop the tendering. Can he do it?

Yes. It needs to be explicitly added to the budget.

There is nothing to stop. He would choose not to start the tendering process.

 

[nfitz]

Yes. It needs to be explicitly added to the budget.

There is nothing to stop. He would choose not to start the tendering process.

The tendering process started with the RFQ in January 2013. They shortlisted bidders and issued an RFP in December 2013. http://www.infrastructureontario.ca/Templates/Project.aspx?id=2147491907&langtype=1033

They'd simply not select a winning bidder.