Highway Expansion

[Dan416]

I wonder what they'll number the Durham Connectors. I mean connector just sounds bad. I just realized something. For pretty much every project, I always start randomly thinking how it would look like when complete. So, small questions like the numbering pop up really early on =P.

I'm the same way. I took a look at the Google Map but couldn't find any neighboring King's Highways that these connectors would take their numbers from. Surely they'll be in the 400-series. But if there's no XX and XY provincial highways to name them 4XX and 4XY then what will they do?

EDIT: On closer inspection King's Highway 12 is relatively close to the western connector, and as there is no Highway 412 yet, I imagine that's what the western connector will be called. I suggest we all call it the 412 from now on.

EDIT 2: I just checked and there's no record of there ever being a Highway 13, so I propose naming the eastern connector 413.

It would have a nice ring to it, having the 407 connector roads being 412 and 413.

 

[jks]

Yeah, I just looked it up on Wikipedia. 412 and 413 sound logical, and they're sequential. I'm not sure about 413, with the whole number 13 superstition. Are there any highways in Canada, or for that matter, the world that have no 13. While on Wiki, I really couldn't believe how many highway projects are on the table.

-400 extension to Sudbury (well underway)
-404 extension to Ravenshoe Rd, Keswick (construction supposed to start in 2008, not sure if it has)
-427 extension to New Tecumseh (underway)
-Mid-Peninsula Highway - QEW bypass (planning)
-424 between 401 & 402 (EA process - opposition of residents could hinder the construction)
-Bradford Bypass - 414, 488(planning, no provincial political support)
-The Durham Connectors - 412 & 413 (EA)

What I found strange, there were also two proposals by the "Toronto Party"??

-448 Scarborough Highlands Expressway - Don Valley Parkway reviler (planning of Toronto Party)
-411 Allen extension (can;t imagine why it would need a number, its a municipal highway)

So, what is this Toronto party anyway, and what are they smoking with the DVP reliever. It's to go from the DVP east then north past the 401 to the 407.

 

[waterloowarrior]

^ http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/
http://www.thetorontoparty.com/transportation_posit.html

 

[jks]

Well, I like their Public transit plan, but I disagree with the DVP reliever.
OMG< I just noticed that in that map, the Sheppard Subway goes to Malvern (bypassing STC), as does the B-D extension!! LOL!!

 

[urbanfan89]

Sounds more like the "Get Toronto Stuck In Traffic" plan to me.

 

[Whoaccio]

Hows that?

The Scarb. Expressway thingy they propose doesn't seem very disruptive, being in a hydro corridor and all, but I don't really see there is much of a point to it. Looks like they were looking through Google earth to find a hydro corridor with a vaguely useful alignment to run a road down.

The subway portion is completely over the top and ludicrous. There is zero need to have something run from Pearson to Eglinton & Kennedy. It is just a waste of money. As jks pointed out, their routes through Scarborough are a bit funky as well... At least there is a 'political party', if you could call them that, officially advocating for the DRL. This is why we need party politics at city hall, to force politicians to take stands on these issues above simply grand standing when it is convenient.

 

[DavidH]

Hows that?
The Scarb. Expressway thingy they propose doesn't seem very disruptive, being in a hydro corridor and all, but I don't really see there is much of a point to it. Looks like they were looking through Google earth to find a hydro corridor with a vaguely useful alignment to run a road down.

Presumably the idea is to provide direct route to downtown from the east, saving time for those drivers, and removing considerable load from the DVP.

 

[nfitz]

Bizarre - they want to build an expressway from Gardiner/DVP east to Queen/Eastern? There's no significant traffic problems with the current set-up.

These guys are smoking something.

 

[unimaginative2]

The 427 is going to be extended, but only a couple kilometres through the planned industrial park to the CP intermodal yard.

The biggest no-brainer for highway infrastructure funding is the widening of the 401 west of the 410/403. It's an easy project, the designs and right-of-way are already in hand, and it's unbelievably overdue.

 

[kEiThZ]

^ http://www.gettorontomoving.ca/
http://www.thetorontoparty.com/transportation_posit.html

I would not mind a new Scarborough Highlands/East Metro Expressway ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Metro_Freeway ) along the hydro corridor from DVP/Eglinton to 401/Morningside getting built. That would help out a bit of eastern Scarborough and most of the eastern GTA. With the DVP being a parking lot at all hours of the day, an expressway like that would really help. It would relieve traffic on the DVP and would provide an expressway that could serve all of the South-East. There aren't really any other expressway that I would consider too pressing. But given that the 404 is being extended North, Scarborough and eastern GTA residents are really getting screwed with high traffic along the DVP/404 before it even meets the 401. Worse still, transit ain't all that great for us either.

As for the Toronto party...at least there's somebody advocating for Toronto! What should be noted is that their transit ideas are actually in line with what many in this forum want.

 

[toraerach]

I would not mind a new Scarborough Highlands/East Metro Expressway ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Metro_Freeway ) along the hydro corridor from DVP/Eglinton to 401/Morningside getting built. That would help out a bit of eastern Scarborough and most of the eastern GTA. With the DVP being a parking lot at all hours of the day, an expressway like that would really help. It would relieve traffic on the DVP and would provide an expressway that could serve all of the South-East. There aren't really any other expressway that I would consider too pressing. But given that the 404 is being extended North, Scarborough and eastern GTA residents are really getting screwed with high traffic along the DVP/404 before it even meets the 401. Worse still, transit ain't all that great for us either.

How much would such a highway cost and wouldn't it be better to spend that money on transit to the area? Frequent all-day GO train service will probably take more cars off the DVP than a highway. Add in fare integration and gas prices that won't stay this low for long and I can see a lot of people switching over to GO in the next few years.

 

[Disparishun]

They are the first I've seen to publicly advocate jitneys. Now, that's something that Metrolinx can get behind.

Jitneys are passenger vehicles, such as small buses or cars, that operate on set routes and are allowed to pick up more than one customer at a time, usually for a set price.

In the 1970 s Toronto operated a Dial-A-Bus service which was a minibus that operated a door-to-door service much like today s jitneys. However, lack of interest in it shelved the service at that time. However, with today s traffic congestion, adding a new, door-to-door, route-deviation, microbus service to the existing transit system throughout Toronto could increase transit ridership and farebox recovery rates significantly. It could provide access to subway stations and GO train stations, reducing the need for parking at those stations. It could also:

- Improve feeder services to and from a fixed-route, fixed-schedule, bus and rail lines.
- Provide door-to-door transportation services in corridors where (i.e. low-density suburban and rural areas) conventional transit modes are not cost-effective.
- Provide door-to-door transportation services in corridors when (i.e. late-at-night, weekends, holidays) conventional modes are not cost-effective.
- Reduce demand for limited park-and-ride lot spaces and lift-vehicle places.
- Provide backup transportation for more people who want -- whenever possible -- to walk, bike, or carpool with friends to get to work or school.
- Provide many new opportunities for public-private transit service partnerships.

I'm not sure about the set routes bit. But I think of jitneys as like a shock-absorber within the transportation ecosystem -- a way to address situations where private cars are too expensive or undesirable, but public transit just isn't (yet) doing it.

 

[Whoaccio]

^
The jitneys could be a great idea. I'm always surprised nobody takes it seriously as an option.

 

[urbanfan89]

I would not mind a new Scarborough Highlands/East Metro Expressway ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Metro_Freeway ) along the hydro corridor from DVP/Eglinton to 401/Morningside getting built. That would help out a bit of eastern Scarborough and most of the eastern GTA. With the DVP being a parking lot at all hours of the day, an expressway like that would really help.

Wouldn't this, you know, create more congestion on the DVP south of Eglinton and on all the north-south roads in the area? If the DVP is a parking lot, this will make it a multi-storey parkade.

It would relieve traffic on the DVP and would provide an expressway that could serve all of the South-East. There aren't really any other expressway that I would consider too pressing. But given that the 404 is being extended North, Scarborough and eastern GTA residents are really getting screwed with high traffic along the DVP/404 before it even meets the 401.

I have a radical idea: don't extend the 404 into the middle of nowhere. Of course this government is in the pocket of sleazy developers (who thankfully will have little work in the next few years).

Worse still, transit ain't all that great for us either.

An even more radical and innovative idea is to...uh...improve transit.

As for the Toronto party...at least there's somebody advocating for Toronto! What should be noted is that their transit ideas are actually in line with what many in this forum want.

It's funny that at the bottom of the page they have:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

"Be the change you are trying to create." (Mahatma Gandhi)

They say you should make no small plans, but Jesus Christ!

 

[kEiThZ]

How much would such a highway cost and wouldn't it be better to spend that money on transit to the area? Frequent all-day GO train service will probably take more cars off the DVP than a highway. Add in fare integration and gas prices that won't stay this low for long and I can see a lot of people switching over to GO in the next few years.

An even more radical and innovative idea is to...uh...improve transit

The DVP is already well over capacity. By some estimates its running at well over double its capacity. And the onramp to the DVP at the 401 is an absolute mess. It's ridiculous that the DVP gets traffic jams at 2am. All this would do is alleviate that issue. by re-distributing existing traffic more evenly.

I recognize the concern that a new highway would attract new drivers. I hardly think that's the case here given that it's running through mostly settled area. The GO improvements are certainly needed and will help. However, there is no way they will complete relieve the DVP congestion. This region is going to absorb millions of newcomers in the coming decades. Some are going to drive. And our businesses will still need roadways to deliver goods and such.

Neither I nor the authors of 'Get Toronto Moving' suggest building this highway as an alternative to improving transit. In reality, both are needed. Transit is needed to move people. Roads are needed to move everything else. That's reality. The orthodoxy that we should build no roads at all serves no one. What we should not do are build roads out in the middle of nowhere that attract car-friendly development...like the 407. There's nothing with having a proper highway/arterial road system in developed areas. Does anyone, for example, consider Manhattan to be a poorly planned mess for having so many highways? They provide excellent transit as an alternative and that's what keeps people off the roads. Merely choking the city with traffic, reduces productivity, creates smog and will only incrementally increase the desire to take transit...more than likely it will convince residents and businesses to relocate.

Wouldn't this, you know, create more congestion on the DVP south of Eglinton and on all the north-south roads in the area? If the DVP is a parking lot, this will make it a multi-storey parkade.

It would merely shift traffic off the 401 and north DVP to the new highway. The main bottlenecks are usually north of Eglinton anyway, around Wynford for example. The proposal also includes an extension to Bayview that would also help redistribute traffic going to downtown and midtown more evenly.

I have a radical idea: don't extend the 404 into the middle of nowhere. Of course this government is in the pocket of sleazy developers (who thankfully will have little work in the next few years).

You do realize that even Metrolinx isn't proposing to have 24 hour GO service to north of Newmarket right. Like it or not, highways and cars are needed in our society and are part of our transportation mix. Residents who live north of Newmarket should have the same reasonable access to public roads as the rest of us. Indeed, they won't have the same access to transit as the rest of us.

Getting back on topic....approaching the core from the east is far different that approaching from the West. In the west you have the option approaching from the South West on the QEW or from the North-West via the 427. There is nothing equivalent to the 427 in the east end. The east is served by one highway: the 401. And that's likely one of many reason why Durham region has lagged in development compared to the Mississauga. Anyway, Metrolinx is considering roads in addition to transit. I am hoping that this is one idea they give some serious consideration.