RedRocket191
Senior Member
What? Never happen! She is immortal. She is the highlander.
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GTTA - MoveOntario Quick-Win Phase 2 Projects
- Thread starter FutureMayor
- Start date
What? Never happen! She is immortal. She is the highlander.
jeicow
Active Member
It might be the way I'm reading the report, but from the look of it, those buses will be going to MT, but I could be wrong.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
I wish they had built the DRL back in the 80s, which they decided was the better way to relieve Bloor-Yonge.
How is the Finch-Steeles busway going to work? The YRT buses run express through that section while the TTC buses make frequent stops. Will the VIVA buses have to sit behind an all-stops-local Steeles bus?
ShonTron
Moderator
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I really think the Steeles buses should run express on Yonge all day, every day until say 9:30 PM (maybe 6:30 Sunday), stopping only at Steeles and Yonge and perhaps at Cummer (and not necessarily so either). I'm sure this might even save a bus or two that could be put on a 97 branch that could do only Steeles-Finch to make up for it during those times, and run in the curb lanes.
In fact, I'd say that Steeles East and West could use all day express services, but the TTC won't consider that idea of having limited stop versions of the busiest routes.
In fact, I'd say that Steeles East and West could use all day express services, but the TTC won't consider that idea of having limited stop versions of the busiest routes.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Yes, they could get away with running Steeles buses express if they ran the 97 a bit more...people would still be able to take Drewry/Cummer buses and walk a few blocks north or get off Steeles at Steeles and walk back.
I honestly don't know what use the busway will be south of Steeles, where YRT/VIVA/TTC buses will all (presumably) be forced to run in the same lane...express and local together at last!
The Steeles bus runs up Yonge much quicker than it used to...I'm not sure what, if anything, they-ve done, but there's no need for the busway. Perhaps YRT would find it useful north of Steeles, but I can't really comment on it since I'm so rarely up there or on YRT.
Yes, they should add Rocket service to every substantial arterial bus route...it makes perfect sense, which is why the TTC won't do it.
I honestly don't know what use the busway will be south of Steeles, where YRT/VIVA/TTC buses will all (presumably) be forced to run in the same lane...express and local together at last!
The Steeles bus runs up Yonge much quicker than it used to...I'm not sure what, if anything, they-ve done, but there's no need for the busway. Perhaps YRT would find it useful north of Steeles, but I can't really comment on it since I'm so rarely up there or on YRT.
Yes, they should add Rocket service to every substantial arterial bus route...it makes perfect sense, which is why the TTC won't do it.
khris
Senior Member
Ha! I made this suggestion to GO a year or so ago. Amazing to hear it's being done
allabootmatt
Senior Member
My prior snarky comment aside, the fact that MoveOntario and indeed Transit City are totally ignoring the timebomb that is rapid transit into downtown is a huge oversight, and I can't quite figure it out. Slightly larger and more frequent trains on the Yonge line don't change the reality that Yonge/Bloor is dangerously overcrowded, and I have no doubt that whatever extra capacity is added will be more than filled within a year or two. Particularly since many of the Transit City lines (Don Mills comes to mind) are just going to dump passengers onto already overloaded subway routes.
This is all not to mention the delusion that south-of-Bloor rail transit at the moment (streetcars) is in any way adequate. While I'm happy to see real investment in transit in the GTA, that the entire city centre is basically being ignored has the potential to be absolutely disastrous down the road.
This is all not to mention the delusion that south-of-Bloor rail transit at the moment (streetcars) is in any way adequate. While I'm happy to see real investment in transit in the GTA, that the entire city centre is basically being ignored has the potential to be absolutely disastrous down the road.
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
Viva was going to have its own bus lanes but if there is a subway they have said they will not be building dedicated lanes south of Hwy 7. But even before the subway proposal there was no real co-ordination between them and TTC and no real plan for where Viva busses would go once they crossed Steeles.
I can understand why the Finch-Steeles was on the initial Move2020 list - it was on Transit City and no one was expecting the province to go it one better with a subway extension - but it seems like something the GTTA should have weeded out since it is so obviously redudant. Is someone going to get off the subway at Finch to take the bus to Steeles instead of staying in their seat?
It seems to make sense for YRT/Viva to expand the hub at Langstaff rather than continuing to run down to Finch but what do I know...
hkric88
Active Member
I'm pretty sure the GTTA's reasoning, as the TTC indicated earlier, that the purpose of building the busway AND building the extension is because the mess on Yonge needs to be addressed NOW, while the subway would take around a decade to become functional. The busway would 'fill in the blanks' until the extension is complete. They are applying the same logic to the Spadina extention to York U, with of course the busway there under construction.
299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
the busway would provide passing lanes at stops/intersections for express buses, so YRT/GO/VIVA/TTC Express buses can use the lanes as well... the cost of the lanes would be recouped over the long run by operational savings (or the savings can be put in to add more service) and with more reliable service, help build more ridership on the corridor (not that it's really a necessity here).
if the GTTA is absolutely 100% committed to building the subway, then I agree that a full scale busway isn't required on this stretch on Yonge. I'm afraid that if like so many times in the past the project is shelved, then we're back at square one instead of having a good stopgap measure in place until a government is there that will bite the bullet and extend the subway. we also don't know what the scope is in terms of the stations along the route and whether some buses will continue to run down to Finch or if a new bus terminal will be built at Steeles and stations north to service the crossroutes... since a Yonge subway extension was never really on the books, the Yonge North busway EA really didn't take into account future subway expansion and its effects.
if the GTTA is absolutely 100% committed to building the subway, then I agree that a full scale busway isn't required on this stretch on Yonge. I'm afraid that if like so many times in the past the project is shelved, then we're back at square one instead of having a good stopgap measure in place until a government is there that will bite the bullet and extend the subway. we also don't know what the scope is in terms of the stations along the route and whether some buses will continue to run down to Finch or if a new bus terminal will be built at Steeles and stations north to service the crossroutes... since a Yonge subway extension was never really on the books, the Yonge North busway EA really didn't take into account future subway expansion and its effects.
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
-Well, the subway is on the same list as the other projects so they seem to be as committed to it as anything else. I can tell you, from talking to regional officials, that they are convinced it is a go and moving on the EA process.
They believe it can open in as little as 6 years because of an expedited EA process (and because of all the pre-work done on Viva).
Naturally federal $$ will be needed...
-The "Save our Yonge" citizens group has been trying to put a stop to the bus-only lanes precisely because they don't see the point of "ruining" the street now when a subway is imminent. To an extent, I agree with that but if the busway will continue to provide operational savings etc. after the subway is open, I can get behind that. On paper, it just seems like a lot of work for such a short stretch of road - especially if there are no Viva lanes on the other side of Steeles.
-I can't see a terminal at Steeles - there's just no room unless Centerpoint wants to surrender their parking lot. There is no reason to build a terminal there anyway unless you're a 416-person who thinks the world ends at Steeles. I think the only Q is whether some of the GO and YRT/Viva busses that now terminate at Finch would cease going that far. There's already something of a transit hub at Langstaff so it seems an obvious place for a terminal to go.
doady
Senior Member
Just because she is form Quebec doesn't necessarily mean she is a frog. And plus, usually only male frogs croak.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Speaking as a life-long user of the Steeles bus, the busway is simply not needed between Finch and Steeles. Its promised operational benefits are dubious, the construction alone would be more frustrating than an occasional spot of traffic ever would, and the subway's on its way.
They never took the busway out of MoveOntario because they were too busy YES-stamping everything that could get their hands on.
Obviously, the only buses that will continue to run to Finch station are Finch East/West buses (and Drewry/Cummer buses if there's no Cummer station, of course). Steeles East/West buses will run to a Steeles station...a new terminal needing no more than about 8 bus bays (including local and express bays) would be needed. Yonge 97 buses could run to Steeles, or possibly continue on to Langstaff - we'll have to see how the double fares are dealt with first (this will also affect where YRT routes like 91/88 go...there may be opportunities to run Bathurst/Bayview buses that cross Steeles). YRT routes like 2/3/5/7 will run to Clark/Centre/Royal Orchard stations. The north/west/east VIVA routes and anything else that can run along #7 or Yonge will all branch out from Langstaff.
Yeah, there's no point in having years of construction only to be followed by more years of construction.
Of course there's room for a small terminal at Steeles - an obvious location is Centerpoint, who can pull a Fairview and build a parking structure. The terminal could go on any of the other 3 corners...remember that significant redevelopment here is all but guaranteed. Sneaking a modest bus bay nest under a new building will be very easy. It will be needed for the two Steeles buses, and perhaps a couple other small routes...8 bays max?
In the 80's there was a proposal to put a bunch of towers on the Town and Country Mall site (previous name for Centrepoint). The owners were willing to put some money up towards a Yonge extension to the mall. The recession killed that idea. No reason to think that whole area from Zellers east to Yonge and north of The Bay to Steeles couldn't be redeveloped. And there's no reason Centrepoint couldn't pay for the station in return for higher densities.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Going by St. Clair, this right-of-way will take 2-3 years to build, including consultations. Significant damage will be done to the street through sidewalk narrowing, tree removal, etc. After 3 years, the subway EA will be complete and construction ready to begin, at which point sections of the road will have to be torn up once again to build the subway. I really can't figure out the benefit to spending $17 million on this. If it's so bad, why not introduce more parking restrictions and a bus lane? That can be done overnight.