2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[ehlow]

It's not like there are construction crews ready to build on Sheppard right now though. It's been delayed pretty far off into the future as-is. Meanwhile, the funding for it is just sitting there. If we were working on the same relative completion timelines as 2010 though, then I'd agree with you.

Eglinton West is probably the least controversial LRT project Toronto could undertake right now. It's an extension on (for all intents and purposes) an existing line, and there are enough design options to satisfy most people's concerns, whether valid concerns or not.

An incomplete Eglinton will always be one of those "yeah, we should really finish that one of these days" projects. Not flashy enough on a political level to warrant major attention (see: DRL, Sheppard, Scarborough Subway), but still enough of a priority that it doesn't deserve to be in the same pile as the Scarborough-Malvern or Jane LRTs.



The question is though is Sheppard East the best use of those funds right now. Scarborough is already getting a subway extension, which further reduces the need for LRT on Sheppard. Yes, there is merit in the "build it now so they'll have no choice but to convert the subway later" option, but overall I think Sheppard can and should be left on the backburner for the time being.

On the condition that things actually happen and transit lines are actually built, I agree with you and would actually prefer Eglinton to be finished to the airport.

I just worry about the message that would be sent by changing plans yet again and I think much of the population is sick of transit debates & flip-flopping and want progress to be made.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Leave Sheppard alone until Eglinton opens, and in the meantime shift the $950 million from the SELRT to the Eglinton West LRT extension. After Eglinton Phase 1 opens, I suspect there will be a greater political appetite for conversion of the Sheppard Suwbay than there is now.

That's fair, I can see Hudak doing that, and then in 2016 Sheppard East and West(to Weston RD begins.) No easy path for Scarborough residents. They better tear Sheppard up and cut and cover if its a subway. We don't need to spend 6 to 8 years of construction time on a low use extension.

 

[Johnny Au]

I like Chow's bus plan. There is more to transit than just subways vs. LRTs.

 

[sixrings]

I like Chow's bus plan. There is more to transit than just subways vs. LRTs.

as long as we are still building Subways and LRTs

 

[BurlOak]

Leave Sheppard alone until Eglinton opens, and in the meantime shift the $950 million from the SELRT to the Eglinton West LRT extension. After Eglinton Phase 1 opens, I suspect there will be a greater political appetite for conversion of the Sheppard Suwbay than there is now.

That's fair, I can see Hudak doing that, and then in 2016 Sheppard East and West(to Weston RD begins.) No easy path for Scarborough residents. They better tear Sheppard up and cut and cover if its a subway. We don't need to spend 6 to 8 years of construction time on a low use extension.

The reason this works is because there are similar numbers of residents in Agincourt who want subway and LRT. By delaying it, you do not really loose support - some may actually like that the subway dream is still alive. I do not think Sheppard subway will be pushed in this Hudak term.

Meanwhile, the Eglinton West would gain support in Etobicoke and Mississauga - both locations were the Conservatives can gain some support.

 

[sixrings]

The reason it works is because there are similar numbers of residents in Agincourt who want subway and LRT. By delaying it, you do not really loose support - some may actually like that the subway dream is still alive.

Meanwhile, the Eglinton West would gain support in Etobicoke and Mississauga - both locations were the Conservatives can gain some support.

I dont know why you would believe that etobicoke is more likely to want surface transit. Notice how St Claire ROW randomly ends in a PC ward?

 

[JasonParis]

I don't understand the aversion to Chow's bus plan. She's simply reversing the Ford/Stintz twice-over cuts. It's a decent and easy first step to improving many people's lives in a small, but instant way.

 

[Johnny Au]

I don't understand the aversion to Chow's bus plan. She's simply reversing the Ford/Stintz twice-over cuts. It's a decent and easy first step to improving many people's lives in a small, but instant way.

I must agree. Grandiose plans are usually a vote grab, but the smaller and more realistic plans are better and this is why I like Chow's bus plans. Most trips on the TTC are actually on the bus.

 

[nfitz]

I don't understand the aversion to Chow's bus plan. She's simply reversing the Ford/Stintz twice-over cuts. It's a decent and easy first step to improving many people's lives in a small, but instant way.

Because it's far too small, and doesn't evern fully reverse Stintz's cuts. She's only targeting the peak-hour cuts, and not the off-peak (mid-day) cuts.

It doesn't even start to go towards the other bus items that were on the books that Stintz cut, such as the 10-minute network, and adding more express bus services and jump lanes.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Transit policy in Ontario: There are similarities in large metro areas like NYC...

Good transit policy still bad politics in Ontario

Read More: http://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...sit_policy_still_bad_politics_in_ontario.html

We want more transit, but we don’t want to pay for it. We want fewer cars on the road, but don’t support measures to reduce their use. We want to continue using our cars, but don’t want to pay the real cost of driving them.

For all of these reasons, don’t expect this week’s provincial budget to lay out an effective transportation funding plan that will ease gridlock in the GTHA. It wouldn’t be politically prudent. These ingrained attitudes show up again and again in independent surveys and in-house political polling. Civic groups, business leaders and government agencies extol the economic, social and environmental benefits of paying for expanded transit and pricing road use to fight congestion. But our views remain rigid.

Our parochial attitudes have driven our political leaders away from a rich debate on anti-congestion strategies. We have made them retreat to an ideological fight over the most politically painless way to finance more transit. Improving public transportation is not enough — on its own — to change travel behaviour and reduce gridlock. Incentives to leave the car at home must be coupled with disincentives to car use, or congestion will persist.

.....

MARK and Everyone: This article caught my eye - This could describe the New York metro region in the comparison of auto
commuting and mass transit especially when it comes to the cost of commuting and congestion...

At least in Ontario there is mention of attempting to try and solve this ongoing problem to balance transportation funding...

LI MIKE

 

[Rainforest]

Right, only with the connection to Line 2 at Sheppard/McCowan, the ridership of the SELRT will be cannibalized as most passengers from the east will simply transfer to Line 2 there. Not only will that make SELRT between McCowan and Don Mills fairly empty, ...

If you expect that most of passengers will transfer to line 2 (BD subway), it is a clear proof that the connection is needed. I do not want to force them stay on Sheppard LRT just in order to make it look full.

... it'll also contribute more to overloading Bloor-Yonge.

But if you force them to board the Yonge line at Sheppard, they will contribute to overloading the whole line.

Bloor-Yonge, at least, can be relieved by building the DRL subway.

 

[Rainforest]

I don't call that inequality of access. First everyone has the same access to the bus system. Everyone stars the same.

Equal access to the closest local stop does not equate with equal convenience of transit service; travel time to the destination is just as important.

The subway lines are based on density. You are basically saying spreading the subways are best. That does not work. The subway will have low usage, and it's funny you mention west BD because many times, you can pass, islington, royal york without people getting on.

Thousands of people who ride the outer sections of subways every day, will certainly say that subways work.

The main role of a subway line is to serve as a trunk, collector for the local routes. If there are enough local routes feeding into the subway, it will work.

Maybe you have been in a subway car that stopped far from the walkway that connects the subway platform to the bus station; so, people boarded cars other than yours. I doubt that you can have nobody boarding the whole subway train at the Islington or Royal York bus interchange stations, unless it was late evening.

And look at Etobicoke and North York and then look at Scarborough. Scarborough does not has extensive subways and property is cheaper there. North York has both ends of the YUS and property around Willowdale is expensive. Same with Islington City Village and west BD

North York tends to be wealthier, but Etobicoke has plenty of areas that are no more expensive than Scarborough. A subway line does not always cause the properties around the stations to be expensive; look at Kipling, Islington, Lawrence West, Victoria Park; you will not find very expensive houses around those stations. Nevertheless, those stations work due to feeder routes.

 

[Rainforest]

I don't understand the aversion to Chow's bus plan. She's simply reversing the Ford/Stintz twice-over cuts. It's a decent and easy first step to improving many people's lives in a small, but instant way.

The bus plan is a step in the right direction. But more emphasis is needed on longer-term transit expansion, in particular DRL.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Equal access to the closest local stop does not equate with equal convenience of transit service; travel time to the destination is just as important.

At that point is it where you choose to live. If you chose to live far, then you deal with living far. Obviously, there are people who live in the periphery because of cost but at the end of the day, you are saying subway > bus but in a nicer package.[/QUOTE]

Thousands of people who ride the outer sections of subways every day, will certainly say that subways work.

The main role of a subway line is to serve as a trunk, collector for the local routes. If there are enough local routes feeding into the subway, it will work.

Maybe you have been in a subway car that stopped far from the walkway that connects the subway platform to the bus station; so, people boarded cars other than yours. I doubt that you can have nobody boarding the whole subway train at the Islington or Royal York bus interchange stations, unless it was late evening.

You can at 10:30 am on a weekday. The subway is a trunk line yes, but that does not mean we build subways everywhere. If a subway is on Eglinton then one is not needed on Lawrence, etc. Under this theory, you can also justify a Western DRL along Weston Road all the way north, but we know that would have chronically low ridership.

North York tends to be wealthier, but Etobicoke has plenty of areas that are no more expensive than Scarborough. A subway line does not always cause the properties around the stations to be expensive; look at Kipling, Islington, Lawrence West, Victoria Park; you will not find very expensive houses around those stations. Nevertheless, those stations work due to feeder routes.

Disagree, otherwise people would not be scrambling to move there. The section of western Bloor Danforth runs just below central etobicoke, which has some of the richest neighbourhoods in the city. I expect prices will rise along McCowan and Sheppard if or when they get their subways.

 

[ehlow]

Historically subway or transit access has not always correlated with high property values. However, that was the past, and in the present and near future it is trending towards that. In the past, traffic was not nearly as bad as it is today, and gas prices were also much lower. There were much less people in the city and much of what are now condos downtown used to be giant parking lots.

Now you're seeing even the rougher neighbourhoods that are near transit start to rise in price, like east Danforth for example. This type of thing changes all the time, Cabbagetown used to be very cheap, now houses are > $1 million. It's pretty clear that neighbourhoods near transit will continue to rise in price.

Lawrence West was mentioned. Many of the houses near Eglinton West, Lawrence West & Wilson are actually selling for very high prices. Every house property listed for sale near Eglinton west of Allen mentions the future Eglinton Crosstown as a selling point.