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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

Long Island Mike said:
MARK and Everyone: This article caught my eye - This could describe the New York metro region in the comparison of auto
commuting and mass transit especially when it comes to the cost of commuting and congestion...

At least in Ontario there is mention of attempting to try and solve this ongoing problem to balance transportation funding...

LI MIKE
Click to expand...

What is the situation in New York?
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Right. So if the numbers only add up to a subway or LRT, then that should be the appropriate choice, not based on politics like the Scarborough subway.
Click to expand...

Sure, there is too much politics around this project. But the underlying case for subway is not unreasonable.

denfromoakvillemilton said:
Scarborough is only worse off because of the transfer at Kennedy. That could have been solved with LRT but...politics.
Click to expand...

Elimination of the transfer at Kennedy is more difficult than it seems. TTC refuses to operate through service (Eglinton + SLRT) if Eglinton is not fully grade-separated. So, we would need extra funding to grade-separate Eglinton East, and then we need to bring DRL up to Science Centre right away; otherwise too many Scarborough riders will clog Eglinton LRT west of Don Mills and Yonge south of Eglinton.
 
Rainforest said:
Sure, there is too much politics around this project. But the underlying case for subway is not unreasonable.



Elimination of the transfer at Kennedy is more difficult than it seems. TTC refuses to operate through service (Eglinton + SLRT) if Eglinton is not fully grade-separated. So, we would need extra funding to grade-separate Eglinton East, and then we need to bring DRL up to Science Centre right away; otherwise too many Scarborough riders will clog Eglinton LRT west of Don Mills and Yonge south of Eglinton.
Click to expand...

I can agree with this. Only thing I can say is that maybe the TTC should learn to operate their trains with more efficiency.
 
Comparing NYC with Toronto on transportation funding...

salsa said:
What is the situation in New York?
Click to expand...

S and Everyone: To give a general idea - the three main questions could describe NYC as well...

First-People want more transit but disagree widely on how to pay for it...
Second-People would like to see fewer cars on the road but again disagree on how to reduce use...
Third-There are wide disagreements on the true cost of driving...

First thought: The MTA has raised fares multiple times in recent years and budgets have had surpluses to
large deficits - under NYS law these need to be balanced in some regard - but with trouble spots like the
way over budget and badly delayed LIRR East Side Access Project transit funding can be a problem...

Second thought: Every time there has been thought of congestion pricing for Manhattan it does not get
implemented because some political group somewhere favoring car users fights its implementation...
Tolling the free East River Bridges and London-type congestion pricing areas have been mentioned...
Example: www.cclondon.com for that option...

Third thought: There are wide disagreement over the true cost of auto use: Gas,Insurance,Wear and Tear,etc.
for starters and tax breaks for commuters have favored auto users over transit riders to some extent...

With a state as large as NYS a "dominant" City like NYC will get its share - but with regional competition
it can get tough at times...

LI MIKE
 
Mike, I think NYC gets way more funding. because the MTA belongs to albany, none of this city bickering goes on. I mean, Eastern Queens will get the subways to Bayside/Little Neck and Queens Village when Albany said so. Look at Metro North and the LIRR, half hour service without fail.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Mike, I think NYC gets way more funding. because the MTA belongs to albany, none of this city bickering goes on. I mean, Eastern Queens will get the subways to Bayside/Little Neck and Queens Village when Albany said so. Look at Metro North and the LIRR, half hour service without fail.
Click to expand...

Den: For the most part that is true - but I am thinking more along the lines of "Upstate vs. Downstate" and since NYS has a Democratic
majority NYC will get its fair share...Republicans don't currently add up to too much in NYS but when it comes to Federal funding having
Republican control of both the US Senate and House of Representatives may turn into a significant problem for the Northeastern US as a
whole...I hope the US Senate can retain its Democratic majority in the 2014 Elections...LI MIKE
 
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Long Island Mike said:
Den: For the most part that is true - but I am thinking more along the lines of "Upstate vs. Downstate" and since NYS has a Democratic
majority NYC will get its fair share...Republicans don't currently add up to too much in NYS but when it comes to Federal funding having
Republican control of both the US Senate and House of Representatives may turn into a significant problem for the Northeastern US as a
whole...I hope the US Senate can retain its Democratic majority in the 2014 Elections...LI MIKE
Click to expand...

That is also very true. Even now, they have been cutting amtrak to the bone.
 
MrsNesbitt said:
Woohoo, Ford demonstrating his inability to think logically by promising to help fund subways with a 0.25% property tax hike! I'm sure Ford Nation is thrilled with his near-PhD-level skills in mathematics.

.
Click to expand...

My favorite stat of this proposal is that if the city paid it on their own it will take 616 years to pay for it in full with a 0.25% increase. If the feds and province kicked in, it will take only 205 years to pay for it.
 
I would vote for any politician who promises to deliver a TfL style agency to the GTHA. Municipally, I'd vote for any local politican actually willing to hand over the TTC to such an agency.

The biggest reason that there is so much squabbling and so much political discord over transit is because there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Metrolinx was the right idea. Too bad, they didn't really empower the agency with taxing powers and give them real responsbility over all transportation issues (like the Gardiner for example). So now Metrolinx is simply a project management outfit for the GTA's laundry list. It does no real prioritization between local and long-haul travel. It does not determine when and where money should be shifted from roads to transit. It does not have priority metrics to rank projects (for example, maximum reduction in congestion or commute times, etc.).

Until there is proper governance, this crap will continue. Sadly, I don't see any politician at the municipal or provincial level who actually has the vision to fix transit for beyond their term in office.
 
I do think people in Toronto sometimes look to Tfl, which is mostly legitimately great, without a full understanding of it though. It's an umbrella agency basically, albeit one with teeth. It doesn't necessarily mean the TTC wouldn't still exist. For instance, London Undeground still operates the Tube, the bus lines are operated by various private contracts (as is most regional rail), etc.
 
JasonParis said:
I do think people in Toronto sometimes look to Tfl, which is mostly legitimately great, without a full understanding of it though. It's an umbrella agency basically, albeit one with teeth. It doesn't necessarily mean the TTC wouldn't still exist. For instance, London Undeground still operates the Tube, the bus lines are operated by various private contracts (as is most regional rail), etc.
Click to expand...

As long as the user experience is seamless, I don't think that most people would care who owns what or who runs what. As long as it feels like one system, I think that's what matters most.
 
John Tory won't build Finch and Sheppard LRT's, at first

In an interview yesterday with Spacing at a Danforth cafe, Tory insisted he’s not going to tack right. But he did reveal that if he’s elected, he’ll push Metrolinx and the province to delay the Finch West and Sheppard East LRT projects so he can accelerate work on a Yonge Street Relief Line.
Click to expand...
“If my next priority after the Scarborough subway is a Yonge Street Relief Line, then I have to get that funded and the agreement of the other governments to similarly move it to the top of the list. What follows is obviously a timetable of other priorities that are behind that. I can’t have it both ways and say we should proceed with those [Finch and Sheppard] immediately.”

Asked if he’d push to re-allocate the budget for the Finch/Sheppard projects — $2 billion from the province and another $333 million from the federal government – Tory replied, “No, I’m not saying that. I’m just saying you can’t have it both ways. If you’re going to say you’re going to do the Yonge Street Relief Line, you obviously have to fund that first…On Finch and Sheppard, I’d say it has to be part of the broader conversation with the province and Metrolinx.”
Click to expand...
http://spacing.ca/toronto/2014/05/08/lorinc-john-tory-qa-pay-transit/

Well now we know the Sheppard East subway will be built if Tory is mayor.
 
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