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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

nfitz said:
I don't see that in that long, rambling, pointless (as in I see no bullets) speech.

And how is only $15 million to fix peak service going to increase the service to pre-Ford days? It only fixes peak? Stintz also cut off-peak loading standards, making off-peak service less frequent. How is only $15 million going to buy the vehicles we need to increase peak service? The 60 extra streetcars TTC wants to do this are $300 million alone. And what about buses? The garages are full, Stintz delayed the new bus garage and buses that was essential by years, as part of cutting peak service.
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Isn't an increase in peak service better than nothing, which as far as I know what the other candidates have promised?

Looking at the mayoral platforms, what improvements are being proposed to make transit better say within 3 years (short term)? So for example promises to build the DRL does not apply since at minimum it will take 10 years.
 
I am not impressed by Chow's plan.

1) We need a more proactive approach to DRL. Although it cannot be built during the next one, two, maybe even three mayoral terms, serious efforts to commence it must be made now, or it will never get started.

2) Scarborough subway has to be retained; it will somewhat mitigate the inequality of transit access across the city, even though the subway is not mandatory based on the ridership projections. Plus, cancelling that subway project after it has been approved and funded by 3 levels of governments will bring a lot of resentment, and harm the DRL cause.

3) Would be nice to make efforts on East Bayfront LRT, as well as extending the Eglinton line to the airport. Both projects make sense, will meet little if any local opposition, and are not too expensive for the city to make a meaningful financial contribution. Actually, East Bayfront LRT can be built entirely on the city dime, it is in the range of $300 million.

Improving the peak-time bus loads is useful, but certainly not sufficient.
 
Rainforest said:
I am not impressed by Chow's plan.

1) We need a more proactive approach to DRL. Although it cannot be built during the next one, two, maybe even three mayoral terms, serious efforts to commence it must be made now, or it will never get started.

2) Scarborough subway has to be retained; it will somewhat mitigate the inequality of transit access across the city, even though the subway is not mandatory based on the ridership projections. Plus, cancelling that subway project after it has been approved and funded by 3 levels of governments will bring a lot of resentment, and harm the DRL cause.

3) Would be nice to make efforts on East Bayfront LRT, as well as extending the Eglinton line to the airport. Both projects make sense, will meet little if any local opposition, and are not too expensive for the city to make a meaningful financial contribution. Actually, East Bayfront LRT can be built entirely on the city dime, it is in the range of $300 million.

Improving the peak-time bus loads is useful, but certainly not sufficient.
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There is no inequality in access. The lines are based on density. If Scarborough wants to see empty subways that's what will happen but that politics. If Scarborough truly wanted the subway they would show it. The entire point is to raise property values in Scarborough.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
There is no inequality in access. The lines are based on density. If Scarborough wants to see empty subways that's what will happen but that politics. If Scarborough truly wanted the subway they would show it. The entire point is to raise property values in Scarborough.
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With regards to "equality", I recommend those who haven't watch this talk:
http://www.humantransit.org/2014/02/video-my-presentation-in-toronto.html

He explains the various forms of equality possible and why equality by geography (number of subway stations in each former municipality, or "spreading out" the subways) isn't necessarily equality in a fair sense.
 
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...ould-be-a-disaster-for-toronto-transit-hopes/

Kelly McParland: Olivia Chow would be a disaster for Toronto transit hopes

While less than ideal, Stintz’s plan has more to say for it than the one unveiled by Olivia Chow, who spent the past seven years as an MP in Ottawa and seems to have lost all grasp of Toronto’s municipal realities. Chow said she would cancel a plan to build a new subway line in Scarborough, a project that took years of agonized debate before everyone finally grew weary enough to quit fighting. Instead she would build an alternative above-ground system — reviving the project that started all the fighting in the first place — and devote the extra money to existing TTC operations. Chow is big on buses, arguing that 60% of TTC trips involve a bus. Which may be true, but adding a few buses to busier lines will do nothing to clear the clogged roads or the overwhelmed subway lines.
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Even at that, the Scarborough line would be a “medium-term priority” rather than something that needs doing right away. She’d have to raise taxes — which she previously promised not to do — and the relief line, which other candidates have identified as their top priority, would come even farther down her list, while Chow tries to talk other levels of government into picking up more of the tab. On that score she must be hallucinating: if anything has been made clear through the long, ugly transit debate in Toronto, it’s the unwillingness of Ottawa or Queen’s Park to spend more billions helping Toronto out of its mess.The government of Ms. Wynne, whose left-wing sympathies come closest to aligning with Chow’s, may not survive Thursday’s provincial budget and is desperate for ways to fund her own vote-buying schemes.Chow not only wants the province to pick up the tab for new subways, she thinks it should go back to paying 50% of operating costs, because it’s the right thing to do and “the people of Toronto deserve no less.”
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If Toronto voters go with that plan, they’ll be going with a fantasy. Chow’s bus fixation demonstrates how much her vision of Toronto is limited to the downtown area, at the expense of the surrounding suburbs. It was a revolt by those same suburbs against the similarly downtown-centric attitude of former mayor David Miller that gave Mayor Rob Ford his surprise victory in 2010. If it appears Chow has a chance of winning, it could be the one development that gives Ford a serious chance of being re-elected.
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Re:

Chow’s bus fixation demonstrates how much her vision of Toronto is limited to the downtown area, at the expense of the surrounding suburbs. It was a revolt by those same suburbs against the similarly downtown-centric attitude of former mayor David Miller that gave Mayor Rob Ford his surprise victory in 2010.
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This doesn't make any sense to me. How is improving bus service a bad thing for the suburbs, and what does it have to do with downtown? The majority of suburban transit users use the bus. Downtown users most often take the streetcar, not the bus.
 
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Solid Snake said:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...ould-be-a-disaster-for-toronto-transit-hopes/

Kelly McParland: Olivia Chow would be a disaster for Toronto transit hopes
Click to expand...

While less than ideal, Stintz’s plan has more to say for it than the one unveiled by Olivia Chow.
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Less than ideal is a huge understatement. The whole thing is pure hogwash.

http://torontoist.com/2014/04/the-karen-stintz-transit-shell-game/


Chow said she would cancel a plan to build a new subway line in Scarborough, a project that took years of agonized debate before everyone finally grew weary enough to quit fighting. Instead she would build an alternative above-ground system — reviving the project that started all the fighting in the first place — and devote the extra money to existing TTC operations.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but it took years of agonized debate just to rescue the LRT from Ford's stupidity. Just when it was about to start construction, Karen Stintz decided to reopen that debate. No outrage over that?


Chow is big on buses, arguing that 60% of TTC trips involve a bus. Which may be true, but adding a few buses to busier lines will do nothing to clear the clogged roads or the overwhelmed subway lines.
Click to expand...

What this will do it make riding the bus a little less suffocating. Nothing will clear the clogged roads. The entire Big Move is only expected to prevent things from getting worse.


Even at that, the Scarborough line would be a “medium-term priority” rather than something that needs doing right away. She’d have to raise taxes — which she previously promised not to do — and the relief line, which other candidates have identified as their top priority, would come even farther down her list, while Chow tries to talk other levels of government into picking up more of the tab. On that score she must be hallucinating: if anything has been made clear through the long, ugly transit debate in Toronto, it’s the unwillingness of Ottawa or Queen’s Park to spend more billions helping Toronto out of its mess.The government of Ms. Wynne, whose left-wing sympathies come closest to aligning with Chow’s, may not survive Thursday’s provincial budget and is desperate for ways to fund her own vote-buying schemes.
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So the mayor is supposed to singe handedly finance billions worth of subways, without any outside support? That is totally unrealistic at best. Without money from other governments, the DRL is not going to happen regardless of who is mayor.


Chow not only wants the province to pick up the tab for new subways, she thinks it should go back to paying 50% of operating costs, because it’s the right thing to do and “the people of Toronto deserve no less.”
Click to expand...

Our transit system is the mont underfunded in all of North America. Until that funding is restored, TTC service will continue to decline during times of record ridership.


If Toronto voters go with that plan, they’ll be going with a fantasy. Chow’s bus fixation demonstrates how much her vision of Toronto is limited to the downtown area, at the expense of the surrounding suburbs. It was a revolt by those same suburbs against the similarly downtown-centric attitude of former mayor David Miller that gave Mayor Rob Ford his surprise victory in 2010. If it appears Chow has a chance of winning, it could be the one development that gives Ford a serious chance of being re-elected.
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Improving bus service is downtown centric? I'll just stop right here...
 
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There is no point in expecting a rational analysis of an NDP plan from the Post. Their mandate is to demolish what comes from the left and praise what comes from the right, whether it makes sense or not. The only real exception is that they have mostly abandoned Slob Frod.
 
Chow’s bus fixation demonstrates how much her vision of Toronto is limited to the downtown area, at the expense of the surrounding suburbs.
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Please don't write about transit, K-Mac.
 
Whoever wrote that column is an idiot.

What is Rob Ford's plan for funding the three subway projects he wants to build? Are the private sector going to line up with bag fulls of money again?

What is John Tory's plan apart from beginning the higher up governments like what Chow is saying?

Stintz's funding plans will go nowhere as they are not feasible.

In this day and age, where raising taxes to fund something is taboo, I wonder if this writer would have been happy if Chow vowed to raise taxes in order to fund our transit. I'm sure he would be screaming bloody murder.

I knew the writer lost the plot when he stated that increasing bus service means her vision is limited to the downtown area. Has this clown been to any of those suburbs?
 
Adjei said:
What is Rob Ford's plan for funding the three subway projects he wants to build? Are the private sector going to line up with bag fulls of money again?

What is John Tory's plan apart from beginning the higher up governments like what Chow is saying?

Stintz's funding plans will go nowhere as they are not feasible.

In this day and age, where raising taxes to fund something is taboo, I wonder if this writer would have been happy if Chow vowed to raise taxes in order to fund our transit. I'm sure he would be screaming bloody murder.
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Ford's inability to create coherent plans is well known.

But Stintz and Tory appeal to me much more than Chow. At least, those two show some ambition on transit expansion, whereas Chow seems to set the bar rather low.
 
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