Zip & Vibe at Liberty Village (Monarch, 2x 24s, G+C) COMPLETE

[rdaner]

first draft

I have only been in the area post LV a few times and though the strip mall was at first offputting I came away with the feeling that they are interim uses that can redeveloped later down the road. This might not be a bad thing as a different architect/developer team may be able to come in to give the district a new layer to start the true city building process.

BTW I like the Balzac's Coffee.

 

[OnceAThief]

It's wasted space where another office or condo with a business on the ground level, or parkland could be placed. Parking can always be underground or on a roof. Free parking is negative in the sense that it promotes car use for shorter distance everyday tasks. As result you get more traffic and pollution.

It's a balancing act. There will always be "could of's" but after a certain point (while nice) it would affect the livlihood, sustainability and convenience of said area. Now while I don't disagree that a large park where the existing parking lot is would be nice, it isn't really viable considering every single supermarket I can think of has both a "free" and a "surface" parking lot.

Regarding car use and pollution. I would argue that the (very) close proximity of the Dominion to so many residential buildings within 1-2 minutes walk away will REDUCE car use. In reality the parking lot is a necessity for people who live a ways out from LV but where Dominion is still the closest supermarket to them. Taking away the parking lot would do harm to retail in the area and thus the neighbourhood as if there is no parking, people will in general simply not go there.

 

[taal]

wow I really didn't get the feeling many of you apparently did.

Yes I agree there are a large number of parking a lots and that's unfortunate but this is a work in progress ... the parking lot in front of dominion will disappear it's just a matter of time.

I really didn't get this strip mall feeling you are all mentioning ... also I really think some of the office conversions are more then just "ok". Anyone have any stats on the occupancy of these though? I'm sure corus leaving can't be helping.

The key word here is potential ... I think it has a ton.

Can we all agree that King west just north of the development is being done right though? Or are their objections with even that?

So my point that if the area just north is taking off then in time there will be more pressure on liberty village it self as well.

 

[urbandreamer]

How is King West just north of LV "taking off?"

In the following set of photos, please explain to me what is so appealing about the retail strip (a starbuck's is appealing? Horrors.), the hideous fading yellow facade, the pathetic cheap-looking retail units and streetscape, etc. Where are the cafes, the patios, the vibrant interesting shops like one finds, say for example, Bloor West Village?



Taal, I'm afraid the south side of King West, including most of the LV condo towers (let's exclude the old buildings from discussion) going up--Bliss, Vibe, Zip, LV towers, etc, is the vertical equivalent of those hideous beige/concrete brick homes in 1980's suburbia--huge garage out front, puny landscaping, beige blandness throughout. (For example, Burnhamthorpe and Winston Churchhill area of Mississauga, Bathurst and Centre St area.)

 

[taal]

So is no part of king west taking off?

Go farther east and you'll see the cafes you're mentioning correct? (I saw them ... I'm pretty sure they exist)
I think these will slowly migrate across more of king .. eventually to this area as well.

I hope your not comparing to Queen West ... it's not the same - and there's doesn't need to be a cafe at the bottom of every building ... what's wrong with what's at the bottom of the buildings you showed in the pics. If you live in the area you'd want them as well.

What I want King West to turn into is not a tourist attraction ... it's an amazing place to live + some of those cafe's / art / ... you are mentioning. As much as we love streets lined with the amazing retail not everything can be like that moreover if you live in the area that doesn't really for fill your needs does it.

And regarding the art that already exists to a certain degree in liberty village ... hopefully more will come as well.

Also the street wall on king is amazing and it's done correctly i.e. all the bones are there.

 

[grey]

The decent part of King West pretty much ends at King & Bathurst. It gets pretty awful west of there until you get into Parkdale, I think.

 

[Towered]

LV is an awful development in every sense other than the loft conversions. The worst part of it is that many charming old buildings were demolished for some of the cheapest and ugliest new buildings in the city, not to mention the horrid one storey strip plaza and grocery store with the unforgivable parking lot, relfecting the fine urban form of Vaughan. Oh wait, I forgot - this is in downtown Toronto. My bad!

 

[taal]

This seems to be a losing battle...
The condos are honestly not that bad, in pictures they look atrocious because of the colours but in real life they are a lot better.

Also the street wall on King even all the way out there is still really good as I mentioned above ... but I know that's not LV.

Even the one building on the pug awards ... I thought it was terrible as well but when I saw it in person realised it's really not that bad ... especially the base it's fits in with the neighbourhood no retail is not good though.

 

[BobBob]

While I am generally very critical of the development of LV, I think some on this board may be going a bit too far. What are these "charming buildings" which were destroyed to make way for these admittedly mediocre developments? From what I recall of the area a few years ago, it was a total wasteland.

Here's a representative pic of the area when that yellow loft building on King was U/C:

The buildings along King St. are probably the best parts, as they at least provide a bit of an urban street wall. It's the townhouses and the new highrises south of the tracks that are truly brutal.

 

[grey]

This seems to be a losing battle...
The condos are honestly not that bad, in pictures they look atrocious because of the colours but in real life they are a lot better.

Also the street wall on King even all the way out there is still really good as I mentioned above ... but I know that's not LV.

Even the one building on the pug awards ... I thought it was terrible as well but when I saw it in person realised it's really not that bad ... especially the base it's fits in with the neighbourhood no retail is not good though.

I've seen them in person and they're still really bad. They look like slab apartment blocks. That's unacceptable. This is a historic neighbourhood and it looks like very little architectural thought went into them. Be Bloor, one of the ugliest developments in recent memory, would not look out of place next to Battery Park (you can find that in last years' Pugs, I think). These look like they belong among the condos at Lakeshore and Park Lawn. Or up at Kipling station.

 

[OnceAThief]

I hope your not comparing to Queen West ... it's not the same - and there's doesn't need to be a cafe at the bottom of every building ... what's wrong with what's at the bottom of the buildings you showed in the pics. If you live in the area you'd want them as well.

In my view, nothing is wrong with them. I personally love this area of King West and think that its progressing quite nicely.

I don't want it to be like bloor west village, if i wanted to live in bloor west village i would have bought there. King west is quiet, has an airy and laid back feel to it. What I love is that its close to downtown and yet has quite a distinct character to its own that is lacking the hectic and frantic pace.

 

[Hydrogen]

The decent part of King West pretty much ends at King & Bathurst. It gets pretty awful west of there until you get into Parkdale, I think.

I would not say awful. Sleepy, maybe; but not awful.

King was never the exciting strip in the locations shown in the photos posted above. It was never a copy of Queen street of roughly the same location. It has shown a nice increase in density due to new buildings, but it certainly is not going to be an area where people are kept awake at night.

 

[taal]

Thank you ... you said it best.

King street indeed gets sleepy .. but what's wrong with that. The built form is still great .. amazing actually on top of this there is street level retail ... nothing to interesting now and sleepy as you said.

Actually thinking of my recent trip to NYC I would take King West over many of streets there as they seem 1) way more sleepy 2) The street is not as narrow which makes all the difference.

 

[adma]

While I am generally very critical of the development of LV, I think some on this board may be going a bit too far. What are these "charming buildings" which were destroyed to make way for these admittedly mediocre developments? From what I recall of the area a few years ago, it was a total wasteland.

Perhaps one must go a little further than "a few years ago", to the days when the Inglis and Massey-Harris complexes still existed, to understand what's being lamented.

That said, I wouldn't knock the King developments too hard; at least they provide for street retail at all. Methinks we ought to allow for time and seasoning before judging their success/failure on that front...

 

[grey]

I would not say awful. Sleepy, maybe; but not awful.

King was never the exciting strip in the locations shown in the photos posted above. It was never a copy of Queen street of roughly the same location. It has shown a nice increase in density due to new buildings, but it certainly is not going to be an area where people are kept awake at night.

What I mean is that the current streetwall is very unpleasant. I think it's also incomplete and has a lot of potential being the major street in the neighbourhood, but right now it's dotted with eyesore buildings. It could become a very nice residential area in contrast to the more dense and lively King West strip further east, but the best part of this neighbourhood is down on Wellington. Niagara St also has a TON of potential.