TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

[TOareaFan]

Although your map is a bit off (your line ends @ Albion and Martin Grove instead of Humber College) if a subway line like that went up Albion then followed Finch down to Humber College, you have solved literally all of North Etobicoke's transit problems!

Suddenly intersecting buses along Islington, Kipling, and Martin Grove can dump passengers onto this line rather than continuing down to Bloor or Eglinton...

Also since the road network connectivity sucks because of the Humber River, the subway would actually provide better speeds than driving for people to go from Etobicoke into North York. Also the portion between Weston and Albion can be an outdoor bridge to cross the large valley

If you build this line, then there will never ever be a need for a Finch LRT period. Because it would serve the western end of Finch quite well...

I think it is worth doing a serious study on at least to see what kind of ridership levels this would bring in...

In additon....I can't see the point in building a subway that got that close to Pearson without completing the job! Of course it would mean that after it crossed the valley it would have to route SW instead of NW

 

[44 North]

Realistically, the Finch West LRT will serve many of the same functions, at a fraction of the cost. I agree completely that Rexdale needs redevelopment, but there are much better ways that money can be spent than on a subway that realistically will be pretty under-used, especially when the Spadina extension opens.

Exactly!

The only realistic way to create a lengthy RT route along Finch and Sheppard - that somewhat resembles old TTC plans - is to use an at-grade transit mode. Forty years ago they knew this. That's why they labeled the route as being "Intermediate Capacity".

 

[gweed123]

Exactly!

The only realistic way to create a lengthy RT route along Finch and Sheppard - that somewhat resembles old TTC plans - is to use an at-grade transit mode. Forty years ago they knew this. That's why they labeled the route as being "Intermediate Capacity".

If they converted the existing Sheppard subway to LRT, and then extended it along Sheppard in the same way as the map described above, then I could see Sheppard being used instead of Finch, because it would create a continuous northern crosstown route. Realistically, the only suitable options for rapid transit west of the Spadina subway are BRT (either curb side/in-median or dedicated ROW) or LRT (in-median or dedicated ROW). Anything else is a non-starter.

 

[44 North]

Yeah, I kinda meant using Option 2 of the SELRT/FWLRT. A conversion of the subway to LRT; with the line jumping north to Finch somewhere near Yonge instead of Allen.

 

[Dan416]

Yeah, I kinda meant using Option 2 of the SELRT/FWLRT. A conversion of the subway to LRT; with the line jumping north to Finch somewhere near Yonge instead of Allen.

That was pretty horrible plan, if you can even call it a "plan".

 

[andrewpmk]

In additon....I can't see the point in building a subway that got that close to Pearson without completing the job! Of course it would mean that after it crossed the valley it would have to route SW instead of NW

Also there needs to be a connection to the GO train, build an intermediate station between Humber College and the airport along the Georgetown line and then this would provide a connection to Brampton.

The section of the 401 through Etobicoke has some absolutely crazy traffic, this is definitely needed. The connection to the GO train would make it far more useful for this group of users.

 

[Palma]

That was pretty horrible plan, if you can even call it a "plan".

It was not a horrible plan. It was a great plan - you are just obsessed with extending the Sheppard subway to no where

 

[Palma]

Every sentence here is wrong - except the part where you say you thought you were missing something.
I said York is building a BRT, and they are.
The Spadina extension is split 3 ways - federal/municipal/provincial. York Region is paying it's share of the municipal costs, ie the municipal share of everything north of Steeles.
I also said that if Yonge was approved, they would similarly be paying their own share.
The rest of what you're going on about is somewhere between realpolitik and conspiracy theories involving a fictional person named "Sabora."
Fact is, a subway to York U has been talked about forever.
The province designated Jane/Hwy 7 as an urban growth centre and plans to build BRT along Hwy 407. York Region lobbied, successfully, to convince the province it made little sense to have a 2 km gap between the subway and the transit hub to the north.

You said York is building a subway and that implies them alone and that it would start and end in Vaughan,. It would lead one to think it would be called the Vaughan transit system.

 

[Dan416]

It was not a horrible plan. It was a great plan - you are just obsessed with extending the Sheppard subway to no where

It was a horrible "plan", and ranked poorly in the Metrolinx analysis. I don't think it was ever seriously considered.

For that price, you might as well just build a Finch West and Finch East corridor. Why bother linking up Finch West and Sheppard East at all? Are we so cash-strapped in this city we can't finish two separate lines?

 

[44 North]

Are we so cash-strapped in this city we can't finish two separate lines?

Yep

I thought it was a good plan because it fulfilled an aspect of Network 2011. All that would be left are Eglinton and DRL. But what's most important: it would have killed the Sheppard Subway once and for all!

Killing Sheppard and silencing those advocating its extension has gotta be one of the most pressing transit matters in this city. Their unrelenting, imprudent, and self-interested demands really are hampering transit progress in this city.

 

[andrewpmk]

Yep

I thought it was a good plan because it fulfilled an aspect of Network 2011. All that would be left are Eglinton and DRL. But what's most important: it would have killed the Sheppard Subway once and for all!

Killing Sheppard and silencing those advocating its extension has gotta be one of the most pressing transit matters in this city. Their unrelenting, imprudent, and self-interested demands really are hampering transit progress in this city.

My point with Sheppard is that there is a huge amount of demand for east west travel in Toronto that is unmet right now, the traffic problems on the 401 at certain times of day are absolutely crazy. While it may be overkill for the time being to build two east west subway lines, as there are many unmet needs elsewhere in the city, permanently canceling Sheppard is not the answer. When Eglinton opens 10 years from now we will see how successful it is, if the Eglinton line is jam packed the day it opens and the 401 still has bad traffic jams then the case for Sheppard will grow much clearer. In the mean time GO expansion should be the other main priority for 2011-2020.

Ridership projections are never accurate and in general Toronto transit lines always exceed them and become overcrowded. Even the existing Sheppard line can get crowded in rush hour these days.

 

[Dan416]

Yep

I thought it was a good plan because it fulfilled an aspect of Network 2011. All that would be left are Eglinton and DRL. But what's most important: it would have killed the Sheppard Subway once and for all!

Killing Sheppard and silencing those advocating its extension has gotta be one of the most pressing transit matters in this city. Their unrelenting, imprudent, and self-interested demands really are hampering transit progress in this city.

You are kidding right?

 

[44 North]

Ugh, the 401 thing!! That's just one of the many excuses for Sheppard that drives me nuts.

Eglinton Crosstown/S(L)RT can be the 401 reliever. That is, a completed Eglinton to the airport. Think about it: a stop right at the 401/427 interchange on the west side, and STC on the east side. Problem solved. A complete cross-city transit route that parallels the 401. Add that with connection points at York Mills and Yorkdale, and you're golden. In other words, one more silly Sheppard excuse crossed off the list.

And no, I'm not kidding. The number one reason I liked the SELRT is that it would end any misguided extension attempts for Sheppard. Most importantly, it would finally silence its advocates - particularly the SOS group and their trolling members I see on the Globe, Star, and Sun.

 

[GenerationW]

Killing Sheppard and silencing those advocating its extension has gotta be one of the most pressing transit matters in this city. Their unrelenting, imprudent, and self-interested demands really are hampering transit progress in this city.

The last three mayors of Toronto up to and including Ford all advocated for building/extending the Sheppard subway.

And without unrelenting, self-interested, and even a few imprudent demands, nothing gets built.

 

[11th]

Ugh, the 401 thing!! That's just one of the many excuses for Sheppard that drives me nuts.

Eglinton Crosstown/S(L)RT can be the 401 reliever. That is, a completed Eglinton to the airport. Think about it: a stop right at the 401/427 interchange on the west side, and STC on the east side. Problem solved. A complete cross-city transit route that parallels the 401. Add that with connection points at York Mills and Yorkdale, and you're golden. In other words, one more silly Sheppard excuse crossed off the list.

Steeles and Finch are 10km and 8km from Eglinton respectively. Distance from Eglinton to Lake Ontario (via Yonge), around 7km. See the comparison?
Also the route hardly serves any place near 401 except at STC and the Airport area.