nfitz
Superstar
It was in in a little report called the Big Move, in the 25-year plan section.
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TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)
- Thread starter LAz
- Start date
Filip
Senior Member
Oh good, 2033. I'll be sure to ride the roofs of streetcars or possibly teleport to the downtown core by then.
Sheppard wasn't in the document because it was a city-led LRT corridor.
nfitz
Superstar
The Sheppard East LRT, Finch West LRT, Don Mills LRT, Jane LRT, Waterfront West LRT, Scarborough-Malvern LRT, and SRT extension to Malvern were all city-led LRT corridors, and all included - mostly in the 15-year plan, but I think a couple were in the 25-year plan.
It's only the Sheppard subway that's not on the radar, other than the $650 million.
Filip
Senior Member
I just wish the province was being more proactive about Sheppard instead of focusing into bringing the subway to some God-forsaken big box stores in the northern fringe of the city. I have a hard time believing all this intensification will go as planned (sure, a few condos here and there, but nothing on the scale of what is proposed).
A good friend of mine will be living a few mins from the Vaughan City Centre station. He and his neighbours are already protesting any large scale redevelopment but super excited about the subway being nearby. Basically they want their cake and eat it too. Also, there's just something disheartening about someone living 30km north of the core getting there quicker than I, living 7km from it. Then again, it's the TTC, so I'll chalk it up to their incompetence.
A good friend of mine will be living a few mins from the Vaughan City Centre station. He and his neighbours are already protesting any large scale redevelopment but super excited about the subway being nearby. Basically they want their cake and eat it too. Also, there's just something disheartening about someone living 30km north of the core getting there quicker than I, living 7km from it. Then again, it's the TTC, so I'll chalk it up to their incompetence.
nfitz
Superstar
The province seems to be very proactive about Sheppard, doing their darnedest to make sure this unnecessary line isn't constructed; yet at the same time is building more transit lines in Toronto than anytime since the 1960s.
Remember, that the forecast ridership for the extension to Vaughan is higher than the Sheppard subway.
kkgg7
Banned
well those people are prbably from some small town with a population under 100k.
I could hardly call Eglinton/Bathust area urban, or St Clair/Dufferin downtown. One key aspect of "downtown" or urban is the density. When you see miles of single family houses, small corners stores and gas station, and buildings 200 meters apart, it is by definition "suburbs".
In fact I don't even think most part of Bathurst south Bloor downtown. Bathurst is essentially purely family houses. Strictly speaking, downtown ends a bit west of Spadina, and east of Parliament. Front St is the south end as further south there is few city amenities despite many condos. North end would be Dupont/Davenport/Church/Bloor.
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Filip
Senior Member
Next government change = Sheppard funded. I have a hard time believing McGuinty's government will survive to the next scheduled elections.
Also, Sheppard has been seeing very high ridership growth, already rivalling many subway lines around the world and only at 5.5km long. That by itself is a feat. Sheppard is far from being a failure, and probably not priority #1 for subway construction; but it is definitely up there and needs to be completed.
I'll take actual numbers rather than estimates some planners/analysts came up with.
JoeParez
Transit Enthusiast
They can move to Newmarket then. They're not going to stop the large scale developments, Vaughan is going to boom weather they like it or not and the subway is the catalyst. ExpoCity is the first high rise (even though there's 3 towers at Rutherford and Jane) then there is going to be Allegra, but there are a bunch of mid-rise units already going up.
I remember one of these idiots coming to my house and trying to get support to stop the developments along Highway 7 and Weston. (Kirkor's 7777 Weston Road project - http://www.kirkorarchitects.com/proj-weston.htm).
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
Right. So then you'd agree that people who come from outside to Toronto should get free TTC rides and parking?
Free coffee at Tim Horton's?
Free dinners at Canoe?
Because, like, they're contributing "nothing" to the city's' economy, right?
And you also agree that the Torontonians who come up to work in Markham and Vaughan and Richmond Hill, they similarly contribute nothing to where they work?
Where you LIVE - that's where you "contribute"?
If you think Vaughan and Markham are "cornfields," especially the areas where the subways are going, you're mistaken.
The people who live in Vaughan but who are opposing intensification at VMC are living in the same fantasy world as the people who think Yonge and Hwy. 7 is a cornfield. It's about as absurd as someone liviing in Manhattan arguing there shouldn't be subways in Queens. Try looking at a satellite picture of Toronto without the borders drawn in and then try to pretend your artificial construct actually exists. Downtown isn't the only urban centre and the "suburbs" aren't entirely detached homes anymore; cities are dynamic, not static.
Usually I'm amazed at the depth of knowledge on these boards on a wide range of urban issues. Every now and then, however, I'm stunned by the lack of understanding people have of what the GTA looks like in 2011 and the relationships, even on a general level, between economic development, urban development and transit.
When was this timeline announced? This is news to me. As far as I knew, the timeline was "sometime within 25 years".
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Yeah, aside from its place in Metrolinx's 25-year plan, there's no firm commitment on the DRL.
Metrolinx will unveil its strategy to raise revenues for transit infrastructure in 2013. The strategy will consist mostly of road tolls, parking taxes and sales taxes. Politicians will immediately trip all over themselves to oppose these measures.
Metrolinx will unveil its strategy to raise revenues for transit infrastructure in 2013. The strategy will consist mostly of road tolls, parking taxes and sales taxes. Politicians will immediately trip all over themselves to oppose these measures.
11th
Senior Member
The argument being the current amount of taxes collected in the GTA should be more than enough to pay for all those big capital transit projects.
Paleo
Active Member
I think you're the one living in the dream world here. York Region needs to spend money to bring their local bus services up to a level approaching the TTC before they worry their little selves about HRT. After that, they can pony up the property taxes needed to support the operating and capital budget too.
How's the TTC's funding from senior governments by world standards?
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TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
Right. Because the way to determine a given geographic area's transit needs is by looking at the budget of its transit service. That makes perfect sense.
York Region is building BRT on Yonge Street and Hwy 7 as we speak and they've completed the EA on a new subway that's virtually shovel ready while Toronto is dicking around with fake subway lines and figuring out how much money can be wasted on a pointless bridge across the Don Valley. York Region is paying its share of the Spadina subway and will pay its share of Yonge as well, when it comes to that.
So the fact that they're not spending as much to serve their spread out population of 1 million as Toronto is on its concentrated population of 2.5 million is entirely irrelevant. Compared to other suburbs they (with help from the upper levels of government) are spending as much on transit as anyone. You can support that or you can try to cut it off at the knees by terminating subway lines 2km short of their major termini on abstract principle.
If you want the suburbs to intensify you have to give them rapid transit. If you want them to keep sprawling until a saturation point and THEN try to build rapid transit, you'll be in a heck of a deep hole, as if we aren't in a deep enough one already. Toronto is not the centre of the universe - though it's obviously the economic centre of the GTA - and it's not the bar other cities have to meet to justify transit or other infrastructure investment.
What you're talking about is not the current planning mandate for the province or the region...and a good thing too. If Torontonians spent a little more time on the fringes of their own community they might have a greater appreciation for reality.
Palma
Senior Member
. When i actually first saw you write Yprk is building a subway I thought I must have seen missed something. York Region is not building that subway , its the TTc (Toronto). The provincial government is providing some funding and the only reason this Sabora Line is going into Vaughan is just that - political and benefitting Sabora's developer friends who must have donated who knows how much money to Sabora. You actually think if the TTC had no outside influence they would actually extend the line to Vaughan or even past Wilson? The TTC started to loose money when they were mandated to provide service to the inner suburbs from the old Metro level government that existed in Toronto.