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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

Perhaps worthwhile on weekends - but on weekdays that would add 4 more cars most times of the day, and end up with better service between Spadina and Union than between Queens Quay and Bloor - and yet the demand is all on the latter.

Would be more efficient to run all services to Queens Quay (rather than Union), and increase 509 services a bit instead.
 
Would be more efficient to run all services to Queens Quay (rather than Union), and increase 509 services a bit instead.

I've always wanted them to go with that. I think once the southern part of the tracks on Spadina reopened, but QQ was still getting finished up, they ran it like that for a month or so and it seemed to work great. I think they also did that for the duration of the Pan-Am Games, and once again, I thought it was excellent. It seems like the most logical option--service to CityPlace gets a massive and much-needed boost, then there's a very easy transfer to connect to/from Union via 509. In fact, I usually do that myself--it's usually a fair bit faster to board a 509 if it shows up first at Union, hop off at Spadina, and walk over to the loop; or conversely I take a southbound 510 to Queen's Quay, then either a 509 will show up first or I'll end up getting on a 510 Union anyways. I've found it shaves quite a bit off my travel time. Hell, I see a lot of CityPlace dwellers just get on the 509 instead of the 510 at Union and walk the few minutes up to Bremner, as I often do when going to that Sobeys instead of waiting an extra 10-15 minutes.

It's a shame that we place such a negative value on having to transfer, and try to shoehorn as many possible trip patterns as possible into one route where it doesn't make sense, all for the sake of keeping people on one vehicle. I agree that having to make transfers is definitely annoying, but the benefits here certainly seem to outweigh the risks...cityplace riders benefit, western 509 riders (Bathurst/YTZ, Fort York, Exhibition/Liberty) benefit, and tourists boarding at Union during the summer will be less confused (the number of times I've seen a huge line, barely anyone gets on the 510, the next 509 overflows and half get off at Queen's Quay...).

And it's largely run that way already, anyways--I can't count the number of times I've seen vehicles distributed like that nextbus screenshot, with the QQ/Spadina to Union stretch utterly barren of 510s for as long as half an hour for no discernible reason. Certainly not constant, but a very frequent occurrence, even during peak. Even the King-QQ leg is bad at times--I've waited 20 minutes at Queen's Quay and Spadina during midday waiting to go North a number of times, called an Uber, and had it arrive still with no sign of a car...at least doing this would fix the King-QQ leg. And of course, contacting the TTC with a service quality complaint of 25 minutes vs a few-minute headway yields the standard echo of "We're sorry for the wait; service planners and route supervisors monitor routes and schedule service appropriately"...what a joke.

One benefit of the current mess of service on the southern 510 is that I've made good friends with the staff at the relatively-new Queen's Quay and Spadina Starbucks, having cumulatively spent many hours there waiting for the 510...I'd miss that!
 
Perhaps worthwhile on weekends - but on weekdays that would add 4 more cars most times of the day, and end up with better service between Spadina and Union than between Queens Quay and Bloor - and yet the demand is all on the latter.

Would be more efficient to run all services to Queens Quay (rather than Union), and increase 509 services a bit instead.
I don't actually know that you would need to add any more cars. If the cars are always bunching up, then the capacity of the trailing cars is not being used. I see this on a daily basis on Spadina...one streetcar packed to the gills with two empty ones behind it.

I've always wanted them to go with that. I think once the southern part of the tracks on Spadina reopened, but QQ was still getting finished up, they ran it like that for a month or so and it seemed to work great.
And it's largely run that way already, anyways--I can't count the number of times I've seen vehicles distributed like that nextbus screenshot, with the QQ/Spadina to Union stretch utterly barren of 510s for as long as half an hour for no discernible reason. Certainly not constant, but a very frequent occurrence, even during peak. Even the King-QQ leg is bad at times--I've waited 20 minutes at Queen's Quay and Spadina during midday waiting to go North a number of times
Fully agree here with both of you. If the cars that turned at King, QQ, and Union were all evenly distributed, it wouldn't be a problem; but, somehow the cars that actually make it QQ and Union all get bunched up in their own sub-group. I've definitely noticed very long waits getting to CityPlace and half the time I've wanted to take the 510 to/from Harbourfront, I've just said screw it and walked between there and King without a single car showing up.
 
Fully agree here with both of you. If the cars that turned at King, QQ, and Union were all evenly distributed, it wouldn't be a problem; but, somehow the cars that actually make it QQ and Union all get bunched up in their own sub-group. I've definitely noticed very long waits getting to CityPlace and half the time I've wanted to take the 510 to/from Harbourfront, I've just said screw it and walked between there and King without a single car showing up.

I think the problem with bunching is die to the the 50 9 cars and the frequencies of each of them almost being the same on QQ
 
Perhaps worthwhile on weekends - but on weekdays that would add 4 more cars most times of the day, and end up with better service between Spadina and Union than between Queens Quay and Bloor - and yet the demand is all on the latter.

Would be more efficient to run all services to Queens Quay (rather than Union), and increase 509 services a bit instead.

509 ridership always looks really low to me. Wouldn't it make more sense to loop 509 at Spadina, and run 510 all the way to Union?
 
509 ridership always looks really low to me. Wouldn't it make more sense to loop 509 at Spadina, and run 510 all the way to Union?

That would be hell. The 509 is packed way over capacity in the AM and PM rush. Forcing hundreds off the train to transfer at Spadina would be a nightmare.

For those getting onto the 509 at any stop East of Spadina, your chances are better when a 510 comes along, as the 509's come full.
 
509 ridership always looks really low to me. Wouldn't it make more sense to loop 509 at Spadina, and run 510 all the way to Union?
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

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LOL. For those of us who genuinely don't understand, can you explain? Pretty please? :)
 
LOL. For those of us who genuinely don't understand, can you explain? Pretty please? :)

It's like asking to run the Bloor line to Spadina Station, and making everyone transfer onto another train to continue past Spadina. It just makes no sense.
 
LOL. For those of us who genuinely don't understand, can you explain? Pretty please? :)

I commute via the 509, and though it isn't the most busy route during other off-peak times, during rush hour every single streetcar is packed to the brim by the time it gets to Bathurst and Queen's Quay, sometimes too full to allow anyone after Fleet Street to board (I always feel super bad for them when I see it happen because it gets WINDY down there). So basically it would make a ton of people make an unnecessary transfer and overcrowd that Spadina stop.
 
On the Bombardier website, see link, is a list of transportation projects in the Americas (Canada). While they show 'Metro Subway Train "Toronto Rocket" — Toronto, Canada', they don't show a line for 'Flexity Outlook — Toronto, Canada'. Maybe Bombardier will put a line up once they have regular deliveries of the new streetcars.

...wake me up when they do...

BTW. If the list is the projects in Canada, how did the U.S. cities get annexed into Canada?
 

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