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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

And that 5 cars in service we saw yesterday? Yeah they're back to nonsensical levels, only 3 are out right now. What the hell is TTC doing with this training schedule?

I actually question whether training is actually happening. We have no proof.

Buses, streetcars, subways are not a car. They need constant maintenance.

We have roughly 240 of the old streetcars, but only 180 ever operate at one time. They take them in and out of service as they need.

Same with the new streetcars, we have ordered 204 but you will only ever see about 150 on the street at one time. Look up the procurement sheet for the new streetcars and they state their service levels.

Couple that with new vehicles (teething issues) and using them as training cars and that is why you only see 3 or 4 at some times.
 
Buses, streetcars, subways are not a car. They need constant maintenance.

We have roughly 240 of the old streetcars, but only 180 ever operate at one time. They take them in and out of service as they need.

Same with the new streetcars, we have ordered 204 but you will only ever see about 150 on the street at one time. Look up the procurement sheet for the new streetcars and they state their service levels.

Couple that with new vehicles (teething issues) and using them as training cars and that is why you only see 3 or 4 at some times.

But they are similar to freight vehicles. From FedEx to long-haul transports to Greyhound to railroads we know the service levels and how infrequent they out of service for repairs. So why are city-owned vehicles off the road so much compared to these?

Most of these private vehicles are inspected regularly and repaired at night. Means that they are maximizing the capital asset. Does the TTC do this? Or do they only do repairs during the day? The repair crew really should only be a skeleton crew during the day for emergencies and all should be working at night when the cars are not in service. We could then use the same number of vehicles for a huge increase in service.
 
Most of these private vehicles are inspected regularly and repaired at night. Means that they are maximizing the capital asset. Does the TTC do this? Or do they only do repairs during the day? The repair crew really should only be a skeleton crew during the day for emergencies and all should be working at night when the cars are not in service. We could then use the same number of vehicles for a huge increase in service.

Except that the TTC buses, trains, and streetcars are also running at night, morning, and weekends. The TTC runs more vehicles in the non-rush hours than most other transit agencies.

When the subway is not running, it does most of the subway maintenance. Yet there are people, who want the subway running 24-hours a day. Even now, there are people who want the TTC not to do maintenance Sunday morning (before 9 AM) on the subway.
 
Except that the TTC buses, trains, and streetcars are also running at night, morning, and weekends. The TTC runs more vehicles in the non-rush hours than most other transit agencies.

When the subway is not running, it does most of the subway maintenance. Yet there are people, who want the subway running 24-hours a day. Even now, there are people who want the TTC not to do maintenance Sunday morning (before 9 AM) on the subway.

They run some of their vehicles off-peak. So you rotate which ones nightly have maintenance. The employee's would not like a night shift but the reality of Toronto is that there are a lot of workers on night shifts.
 
Except that the TTC buses, trains, and streetcars are also running at night, morning, and

The 509 and 510 are not 24-hour routes. Maintenance and training on the new streetcars could be optimized to use those out of service hours. Does the TTC bother to do this?
 
The 509 and 510 are not 24-hour routes. Maintenance and training on the new streetcars could be optimized to use those out of service hours. Does the TTC bother to do this?

Starting early Labour Day, Monday, September 7, the TTC resumes 317 Spadina streetcar service. The CLRV's will be signed 510 Spadina, while the LFLRV's will be signed 317 Spadina.

The 304 King streetcar service also starts the same day. The CLRV's will be signed 504 King, while the LFLRV's will be signed 304 King.

304 and 317 are Blue Night Network routes, running between from approximately 1:30 am to 5:00 am.
 
The 509 and 510 are not 24-hour routes. Maintenance and training on the new streetcars could be optimized to use those out of service hours. Does the TTC bother to do this?
TTC has a greater utilization rate (lower spare rate) than most other systems.

And I doubt anyone would expect more than 5 new cars to be in service currently. With 2 typically in for training/maintenance and 4407 damaged in that accident, then 5 is the maximum one is likely to see.

Anyone expecting more than this currently has unreasonable expectations. I think this has been pointed out further up the thread already; I'd suggest reading through it.
 
Not I ;)

My expectation is for training not to take 12 months. Nobody has fully explained why it is taking so long.
 
Not I ;)

My expectation is for training not to take 12 months. Nobody has fully explained why it is taking so long.

I would expect training to continue for the entire 30+ year lifespan of the vehicles. Driver churn is nearly constant.
 
I would expect training to continue for the entire 30+ year lifespan of the vehicles. Driver churn is nearly constant.
That seems unreasonable. I'd think at least 40 years of training. I see near 40-year old CLRVs go by all the time saying Training.
 
But they are similar to freight vehicles. From FedEx to long-haul transports to Greyhound to railroads we know the service levels and how infrequent they out of service for repairs. So why are city-owned vehicles off the road so much compared to these?

Most of these private vehicles are inspected regularly and repaired at night. Means that they are maximizing the capital asset. Does the TTC do this? Or do they only do repairs during the day? The repair crew really should only be a skeleton crew during the day for emergencies and all should be working at night when the cars are not in service. We could then use the same number of vehicles for a huge increase in service.

Certain types of inspections ("Standard" Inspections) are only done during the day and take most of the day to complete. These are pretty comprehensive and involve checking just about everything. There are only a few cars done each day as the fleet rotates through. There are more frequent night time inspections, known as "Pit" inspections, which focus underneath the cars, the traction system, running gear and brakes (in the case of CLRVs/ALRVs/PCCs. I'd assume that this would be similar for the Flexity cars as well). I think there are more cars done each night in Pit inspections so they cycle through the fleet more quickly.

Speculation here, it may also be that the Flexity cars also have a more frequent inspection cycle since they are new and they may want to see how certain equipment is holding up to daily wear and tear.

Repairs are done on any shift, except for large jobs, which may be done on a single shift so that the same technicians do the work. Obviously major repairs are done at Hillcrest rather than at the carhouses. Like any other vehicle, some electrical repairs may require quite a bit of detective work to figure out where a malfunction is occurring and the underlying cause, while other repairs are simple swap outs of defective components.

A few cars also receive thorough ceiling-to-floor interior washes during the day (usually ones that had Standard inspections the day before).

The number of cars tied up during the day for this work isn't that big, most of the inactive cars are sitting in the yard.

Carhouse operations are actually quite interesting when you see how much is happening on a daily cycle. You never get to see all this during the brief Doors Open events.
 
Certain types of inspections ("Standard" Inspections) are only done during the day and take most of the day to complete. These are pretty comprehensive and involve checking just about everything. There are only a few cars done each day as the fleet rotates through. There are more frequent night time inspections, known as "Pit" inspections, which focus underneath the cars, the traction system, running gear and brakes (in the case of CLRVs/ALRVs/PCCs. I'd assume that this would be similar for the Flexity cars as well). I think there are more cars done each night in Pit inspections so they cycle through the fleet more quickly.

Speculation here, it may also be that the Flexity cars also have a more frequent inspection cycle since they are new and they may want to see how certain equipment is holding up to daily wear and tear.

Repairs are done on any shift, except for large jobs, which may be done on a single shift so that the same technicians do the work. Obviously major repairs are done at Hillcrest rather than at the carhouses. Like any other vehicle, some electrical repairs may require quite a bit of detective work to figure out where a malfunction is occurring and the underlying cause, while other repairs are simple swap outs of defective components.

A few cars also receive thorough ceiling-to-floor interior washes during the day (usually ones that had Standard inspections the day before).

The number of cars tied up during the day for this work isn't that big, most of the inactive cars are sitting in the yard.

Carhouse operations are actually quite interesting when you see how much is happening on a daily cycle. You never get to see all this during the brief Doors Open events.

Thanks for the information. Why are the "standard" inspections and detailed washings preformed during the day? It ties up the car when it should be in use.

It is a union contract thing or a TTC management issue (or both)? Understand 20+ years ago when the cost of a vehicle was much cheaper but now the cost of the vehicle vs labour skews the analysis to the vehicle.
 
Thanks for the information. Why are the "standard" inspections and detailed washings preformed during the day? It ties up the car when it should be in use.

It is a union contract thing or a TTC management issue (or both)? Understand 20+ years ago when the cost of a vehicle was much cheaper but now the cost of the vehicle vs labour skews the analysis to the vehicle.

The techs doing the Standard inspections are usually pretty senior and would incur a shift premium if they were moved to the night shift, so $$$ there. The carhouse also has physical limitations as to how many cars can be parked over the inspection pits so you couldn't do everything on the night shift.

Also, the number of cars in for the Standard Inspections doesn't impact mid-day service as there are more cars just sitting idle in the yard so mid-day service could still be increased before you'd need to pull out the ones getting inspections.

If it got to the point that you were running intensive AM peak level service all day long on all routes, then you might not be able to do inspections during the day. Even then, the spare ratio should take those cars into account.
 

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