ehlow
Senior Member
Very interesting, thanks for posting.
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Very interesting, thanks for posting.
DSC
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I think the Washington DC streetcar in-street 'wiring' - or most of it - was actually CABLE - like the cable cars in San Francisco. You can still see a few examples in Georgetown and last year they were actually rehabilitating the in-street cable 'conduits' as a tourist attraction - no streetcars now. This from Wiki:
Conversion of horse cars to mechanical and electrical power[edit]
On March 2, 1889, the District authorized every streetcar company in Washington to switch from horse power to underground cable or to electricity provided by battery or underground wire and in 1890 companies were authorized to sell stock to pay for the upgrades - provided they did not involve overhead wires. In 1892, one-horse cars were banned within the city, and by 1894 Congress began requiring companies to switch to something other than horse power while continuing to disallow overhead lines within the city.
Washington and Georgetown[edit]
After the March 2, 1889, law passed, the Washington and Georgetown began installing an underground cable system. Their 7th Street line switched to cable car on April 12, 1890. The rest of the system switched to cable by August 18, 1892.[1][13] In 1892, they extended their track along 14th to Park Road NW.
ehlow
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Steve Munro's post on surface route service & the new streetcar articles in the Post:
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=10007
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=10007
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Yes, but the TTC are now saying "November". More in Corktown thread.
nfitz
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I have a bridge on the market
->) - want a swap? I think that the TTC sign guys (who made smart (expensive) new signs saying 'end November" are in the loop but with the TTC it's hard to say which is right except, as you have said, 2015 or 2016 seems more probable! (WT and IO, who are fixing (?) the Don Bridge, are equally poor at predicting completion dates and changing their plans so we have three organisations who can blame each other ....)TheTigerMaster
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More anti-streetcar articles from the Globe.
Will the new longer streetcars make Toronto traffic even slower on busy streets?
You see, in the mind of some automobile drivers that happen to also be selfish, entitled twats, a streetcar carrying 250 people is getting in the way of their commute by causing congestion. Little do said selfish, entitled twats realize, they are the cause of congestion and they are the ones hurting the commute of the hundreds of people on the streetcar.
Will the new longer streetcars make Toronto traffic even slower on busy streets?
You see, in the mind of some automobile drivers that happen to also be selfish, entitled twats, a streetcar carrying 250 people is getting in the way of their commute by causing congestion. Little do said selfish, entitled twats realize, they are the cause of congestion and they are the ones hurting the commute of the hundreds of people on the streetcar.
hawc
Senior Member
While I probably agree with your overall point, I cringe every time I see someone write 'anti-streetcar' 'anti-car' or 'anti-bike' as it frames the overall debate the way Rob Ford would like, in an us vs. them mentality.
Constructive criticism of any legitamate modes of transportation should be allowed to freely take place without this pick-a-side language that you're anti something if you raise possible issues about it.
This article also intrigued me however because I went to North Toronto Collegiate Institute with the author Ian Merringer and when I look at the first person he quotes it's Duncan Purcell whom was also a classmate of ours. Then I go on Ian's facebook page and he says, "I need to hear about streetcars. Drivers: What do you think about their effect on traffic? Riders: why do you prefer them to buses?"
Small world.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Couldn't agree more.
I have previously voiced concern about the new streetcars.....I am not anti streetcar and I am certainly not anti-newstreetcar...but it is a legitimate concern how cars will interact with the new cars as they represent a significant change in our normal street patterns.
It may be a period of adjustment that we will get over but if we go through a prolonged period where cars just don't know how to (or can't) utilize efficiently the lane that the streetcar is not occupying then we do end up with a reduction in overall road carrying capacity.
On King, for example, it will become imperative, now, that the no parking/stopping in the right lane during rush hours is enforced....this will do two things, 1) it will give drivers a longer/clearer "runway" to pass safely between stops and 2) will allow the subsequent enforcement of the no cars in the streetcar lane during those hours which will give the streetcars themselves a clear runway to operate at their maximum efficiency. In the current King street operating environment, however, to dismiss any concern about this as "anti-streetcar" is just burying our heads the sand and hoping the problem goes away....using King as the example again....how has that worked so far and how will it work going forward?
Couldn't agree more.
hawc
Senior Member
Maybe we need to look at making King one way and Queen another? You could even run dual streetcars in the same direction on both tracks.
hawc
Senior Member
Also, it is an inefficient use of the road to see cars backed up for blocks behind a streetcar and the road completely empty in front of the streetcar for blocks. It's just not spreading out the traffic efficiently.
TOareaFan
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Exactly.....we should be thinking of transit corridors (be they road or rail or whatever) as pipes/conduits for moving people. The new streetcars are great because they seem to offer an increase in the pipe capacity compared to the old ones but if they have the unintended consequence of reducing the overall size of the pipe because the right lane becomes unable to reach its own capacity then we have to look at ways of fixing that......that does not mean get rid of streetcars and it does not mean go back to the old streetcars but it does mean we shouldn't just dismiss the concern out of hand.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
The new streetcars, for all the potential negative impact on cars due to vehicle length is probably going to be balanced on increased loading/unloading speed, which from my observation being one of, if not the greatest cause of delays. It is time to plan for subway replacement however.
AoD
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Filip
Senior Member
Is it so hard to believe that most Torontonians loathe the streetcars?
I seldom drive downtown, never on a streetcar route (I'm not masochistic), but these complaints rarely stem from drivers as much as the riders of the streetcar themselves. I have walked faster than a streetcar on Queen - that's not right.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Last night after the TFC match I took the 511 to King and took my transfer. When I got to King I decided to just walk to my destination (King and Simcoe).....the first streetcar I saw on King got to Simcoe about 3 1/2 seconds before I did.