Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[BMO]

Don't you realize that this line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense? Where should the LRT end? Where should the bus after the LRT end? You're saying the subway should not be extended because the subway can be extended. Should I not go for a walk around the block this afternoon because I'm capable of walking 20 miles?



When do you draw the line? Wherever you want...wherever it makes sense. Finch makes no sense as a terminus (the hydro corridor makes a good parking lot but parking can be added anywhere). Steeles makes a fraction of sense mostly due to the fare boundary (which may not be there forever). Clark would make some sense if the E/W rail corridor there had passenger service. The next place north of Finch that makes a lot of sense is Hwy 7, which is why the extension - which is needed for a subjective distance north of Finch - is stopping there.

I'm not against the extension at all I'm all for the subway going up north, i'm just saying that I find it hard to believe that a Line so long can be efficient enough for its purpose.

 

[Chuck]

I'm not against the extension at all I'm all for the subway going up north, i'm just saying that I find it hard to believe that a Line so long can be efficient enough for its purpose.

Extending the subway to Highway 7 won't even change the most outlying subway station, which will still be located in Scarborough. If the Danforth Line and RT were stretched into a straight line and rotated north on Yonge, the end of the RT would be located north of 16th, deep inside Richmond Hill.

 

[Amphibius]

Extending the subway to Highway 7 won't even change the most outlying subway station, which will still be located in Scarborough. If the Danforth Line and RT were stretched into a straight line and rotated north on Yonge, the end of the RT would be located north of 16th, deep inside Richmond Hill.

2 kms north of Langstaff isn't much diff. Its being lower-density, car-oriented suburban sprawl is. The area shouldn't have to be waiting in anticipation of a subway extension in order for it organically urbanize and trigger its own intensification zones. Many areas of Toronto and Mississauga are already fully capable of developing on their own accord without such a promise. They have the population densities and UBCs that exceed the capacity of the bus network NOW. Transit City isn't the answer for many, dare I say most, of these areas; yet in our ass-backwards political system we're prioritizing new subways to places that'll only generate a paltry 2000pphpd.

There are several other options we could explore ahead of prioritizing the subway expansion to RHC; dedicated bus-only lanes, increased frequency of VIVA, increased frequency of trains to/from Langstaff GO Stn, even LRT down the median of Yonge St north of Steeles. The 407 lands developments incl. the Transitway station could all still be serviced more than adequately by these transit improvements and generate the same benefits as the subway extension.

Better even since surface transit promotes the development of a continuous streetscape, something Thornhill currently lacks; better customer interface with the services via island or curbside stops (i.e. no walking down 3 flights of stairs to transfer); and most importantly it won't cause the YUS line to overcrowd to such an extent that Torontonians south of Lawrence Stn trying to board, can't get on. The Bloor-Yonge interchnage doesn't have to get overcapcitated and an ill-conceived DRL proposal doesn't have to get rushed through without re-assessment; meaning proper and sustainable transit solutions region-wide can be sought at.

 

[Dan416]

I'm not against the extension at all I'm all for the subway going up north, i'm just saying that I find it hard to believe that a Line so long can be efficient enough for its purpose.

If anything, we should split up YUS in half at Union.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

2
Better even since surface transit promotes the development of a continuous streetscape, something Thornhill currently lacks; better customer interface with the services via island or curbside stops (i.e. no walking down 3 flights of stairs to transfer);.

Tell that to the businesses along Yonge Street who were even more opposed to bus lanes than the St Clair ROW folk.

Anyway, I can't keep saying this but I will: The provincial growth plan, which designates major growth AND a major transit hub at Hwy 7, makes stopping the subway short of Hwy 7 riddiculous. It would have been hypocritical of the province to order RH and Mkm to intensify there and then refuse to extend the Yonge subway. This isn't just an abstract transit exercise, it's a big puzzle piece in a big planning puzzle.

For anyone asking the proverbial "where do we draw the line, and why?" that's your answer: the planning regime which treats Yonge/7 as a major hub.

It seems most people here agree the flaw with Transit City is all the transferring and that's why many here want to see Sheppard continue as a subway to Scarborough. By any objective measure ending YUS at Finch is dumb and it seems at least as dumb to take it up to Steeles while YRT builds an LRT the rest of the way to Hwy 7; totally defeats the purpose of creating an integrated transit hub there.

 

[xtremesniper]

2 kms north of Langstaff isn't much diff. Its being lower-density, car-oriented suburban sprawl is. The area shouldn't have to be waiting in anticipation of a subway extension in order for it organically urbanize and trigger its own intensification zones. Many areas of Toronto and Mississauga are already fully capable of developing on their own accord without such a promise. They have the population densities and UBCs that exceed the capacity of the bus network NOW. Transit City isn't the answer for many, dare I say most, of these areas; yet in our ass-backwards political system we're prioritizing new subways to places that'll only generate a paltry 2000pphpd.

There are several other options we could explore ahead of prioritizing the subway expansion to RHC; dedicated bus-only lanes, increased frequency of VIVA, increased frequency of trains to/from Langstaff GO Stn, even LRT down the median of Yonge St north of Steeles. The 407 lands developments incl. the Transitway station could all still be serviced more than adequately by these transit improvements and generate the same benefits as the subway extension.

Better even since surface transit promotes the development of a continuous streetscape, something Thornhill currently lacks; better customer interface with the services via island or curbside stops (i.e. no walking down 3 flights of stairs to transfer); and most importantly it won't cause the YUS line to overcrowd to such an extent that Torontonians south of Lawrence Stn trying to board, can't get on. The Bloor-Yonge interchnage doesn't have to get overcapcitated and an ill-conceived DRL proposal doesn't have to get rushed through without re-assessment; meaning proper and sustainable transit solutions region-wide can be sought at.

You do realize that if we just funnel people to Finch Station using LRT or dedicated bus lanes, you'll still have the same issue of overcrowding that everyone is whining about, minus the ability to do anything about it.

If the extension was in place, every second train can turn back at Finch to provide everyone to the south an empty train to fill up.

If the extension isn't in place, but transit usage continues to rise to Finch Station though Viva, YRT, TTC, and GO, you'll just have an already sardine canned train right from the get-go, with no real way of doing anything about it, except maybe short-turning at Sheppard-Yonge Station.

One way or another, transit in the GTA needs to improve, and it needs to be able to adapt to growing ridership. Stubbing a subway station at a location that it was dumped at years and years ago before York Region's density increased is just going to cause more problems underground and on the surface than what it's worth.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

You do realize that if we just funnel people to Finch Station using LRT or dedicated bus lanes, you'll still have the same issue of overcrowding that everyone is whining about, minus the ability to do anything about it.

It's a great point - anyone who has taken a crowded bus to Finch or tried to park in those lots after 9am understands a basic fact: there are lots of people coming from the north. These people are ALREADY using the Yonge line, they're just taking an inefficent mode to get there.

Even if there wasn't new ridership coming onto the line you'd have to ask what is the most efficient way to get people from southern york region (and north Toronto) to Finch. Right now it's obviously-overtaxed buses and a lot of cars doing it. Next level up is BRT. It's hard to argue moving all those buses into their own lanes down anything real to solve the problem.

Possibly you could make an argument for LRT -not a good one, but an argument nonetheless. Compromising by extending the subway to Steeles with LRT to Hwy 7 is a Solomonic decision only a Torontonian could devise. Utterly pointless.

The point? When you look at current ridership north of Finch and planned development between Steeles and 7 it's about as no-brainer a project as you'll ever find.

 

[xtremesniper]

Possibly you could make an argument for LRT -not a good one, but an argument nonetheless. Compromising by extending the subway to Steeles with LRT to Hwy 7 is a Solomonic decision only a Torontonian could devise. Utterly pointless.

The point? When you look at current ridership north of Finch and planned development between Steeles and 7 it's about as no-brainer a project as you'll ever find.

"a decision only a Torontonian could devise." Bingo.

There are more people coming from Richmond Hill and Markham to Finch Station than a lot of Torontonians would like to admit.

 

[BMO]

"a decision only a Torontonian could devise." Bingo.

There are more people coming from Richmond Hill and Markham to Finch Station than a lot of Torontonians would like to admit.

And Vaughan too!!

 

[kettal]

Anyway, I can't keep saying this but I will: The provincial growth plan, which designates major growth AND a major transit hub at Hwy 7, makes stopping the subway short of Hwy 7 riddiculous. It would have been hypocritical of the province to order RH and Mkm to intensify there and then refuse to extend the Yonge subway. This isn't just an abstract transit exercise, it's a big puzzle piece in a big planning puzzle.

You have a very good point. Richmond Hill has done such a great job of intensifying the new Richmond Hill Centre. I just can't think of a better place for a subway!

You wouldn't believe how much progress has been made here over the past 10 years. This picture is actually out of date, there's now a Best Buy on one of the vacant lots and about twice as much parking.

Let's congratulate the urban planners responsible for this one!

And for those poor torontonians stuck in overcrowded buses, well suck it, you'll get your help once every Home Depot in the GTA has a subway station.

 

[ellett44]

^Anyone got an aerial pictures over Finch station from the late 60's/early 70's. Should be a nice comparison. I think you would find something very similar to what is shown above perhaps less....

 

[kettal]

Farms and houses. Not explicitly car-centric retail.

 

[RedRocket191]

You have a very good point. Richmond Hill has done such a great job of intensifying the new Richmond Hill Centre. I just can't think of a better place for a subway!

You wouldn't believe how much progress has been made here over the past 10 years. This picture is actually out of date, there's now a Best Buy on one of the vacant lots and about twice as much parking.

Let's congratulate the urban planners responsible for this one!

And for those poor torontonians stuck in overcrowded buses, well suck it, you'll get your help once every Home Depot in the GTA has a subway station.

I'm not sure how your point applies, as the master plan calls for pretty much everything in that aerial image to be demolished.... Try this:

Image 1 is looking right at what is now the movie theatre.
We have to stop arguing "current conditions don't warrant it". By the time we build the damn thing the current conditions won't exist.

 

[waterloowarrior]

^Anyone got an aerial pictures over Finch station from the late 60's/early 70's. Should be a nice comparison. I think you would find something very similar to what is shown above perhaps less....

Farms and houses. Not explicitly car-centric retail.

Yonge and Finch area in the early 1970s... (1972)

 

[xtremesniper]

Kettal, as immature as this may sound... Burn.

And on top of all that it's already well known that the owner of the complex there (Metrus) is waiting for the word to demolish the entire thing and start fresh based upon the subway station.