It would appear that some people here are biased by where they live as a factor in determining whether York Region is in fact primed and really for underground metros. I however focus on the statistics (StatsCan), and time and again, these prove that the
Downtown core (6,961.9 people per km²),
Scarborough (3,160.9 people per km²),
Mississauga (2361 people per km²), even stretches of Eglinton proper have higher, more concentrated population densities than the "
City" of
Vaughan (873.1 people per km²) and
Richmond Hill (1,612.7 people per km²). Markham residents obviously would feed directly into a Scarborough subway plus connecting LRT routes, not to mention Lincolnville GO once all-day, bidirectional operation is possible.
Tell that to the businesses along Yonge Street who were even more opposed to bus lanes than the St Clair ROW folk.
Anyway, I can't keep saying this but I will: The provincial growth plan, which designates major growth AND a major transit hub at Hwy 7, makes stopping the subway short of Hwy 7 riddiculous. It would have been hypocritical of the province to order RH and Mkm to intensify there and then refuse to extend the Yonge subway. This isn't just an abstract transit exercise, it's a big puzzle piece in a big planning puzzle.
If that is the case, then the possibility of expanding the subway network in the future is always an open option. For now, density tapers off just past Clark Avenue which is just a brisk bus ride north of Steeles. If the underground megaterminal is built at Yonge & Steeles as planned, I fail to see how anyone is being severely inconvenienced.
And rapid bus or light rail transit is so doable through Thornhill. This could be achieved with bus lanes, bypass shoulders, queue-jumping at intersections, priority over traffic signals and other features designed to alott fast travel times in-between the subway and Richmond Hill.
For anyone asking the proverbial "where do we draw the line, and why?" that's your answer: the planning regime which treats Yonge/7 as a major hub.
It seems most people here agree the flaw with Transit City is all the transferring and that's why many here want to see Sheppard continue as a subway to Scarborough. By any objective measure ending YUS at Finch is dumb and it seems at least as dumb to take it up to Steeles while YRT builds an LRT the rest of the way to Hwy 7; totally defeats the purpose of creating an integrated transit hub there.
I actually want to see the Sheppard Line converted to LRT technology and extended over to Malvern Town Ctr with a spur line going into SCC. The RHC hub concept sounds good on paper, but let's get real here. It'll turn out to be another Smart!Centres -type set up with condo-owners whom may still find it faster to drive into the downtown than use public transit. It's a gamble, not an absolute; and the only ones who wind up winning in these things are the contractors, hired consultants, loan accountants and the politicians involved.
Sorry if I see the futility in having bus routes converge onto a certain point along a street in a vain attempt to legitimize spending billions upon a subway to that particular spot. Lets build subways out to downtown Markham, Pickering Town Ctr and Bramalea City Ctr while we're at it. I also do not think a Yonge LRT would end at RHC. It'd likely terminate at Bernard Terminal, maybe even to 19th Avenue.
You do realize that if we just funnel people to Finch Station using LRT or dedicated bus lanes, you'll still have the same issue of overcrowding that everyone is whining about, minus the ability to do anything about it.
If the extension was in place, every second train can turn back at Finch to provide everyone to the south an empty train to fill up.
Who said anything about Finch? I support an extension to Steeles. Conscientious York riders would too, as buses/LRT entering the underground terminal likely will not be subject to fare tariff. People boarding from RHC definitely
would pay a second fare upon entry to my understanding.
Regardless, Finch draws nearly 80,000 on its own routes; 36, 39/139 = 77,300, plus whatever net gains are achieved via the new Finch West LRT and possible FHC BRT. So coupled with Sheppard transfers, chances are the trains will still fill up by the time they reach Lawrence Stn.
If the extension isn't in place, but transit usage continues to rise to Finch Station though Viva, YRT, TTC, and GO, you'll just have an already sardine canned train right from the get-go, with no real way of doing anything about it, except maybe short-turning at Sheppard-Yonge Station.
One way or another, transit in the GTA needs to improve, and it needs to be able to adapt to growing ridership. Stubbing a subway station at a location that it was dumped at years and years ago before York Region's density increased is just going to cause more problems underground and on the surface than what it's worth.
A Sheppard-Yonge short-turn isn't such a bad idea actually given the conveniently placed crossover tracks south of the station. Thanks.
The problem with overcrowding on the Yonge is the fault of lack of distributive drop-off points for 905 riders, not lack of a 905 subway extension. In the forseeable future: Jane/Steeles, Don Mills/Steeles and McCowan/Steeles will become major transfer points. The former, a subway's at their door; the latter, under 15 minutes travel time to the Sheppard and Scarborough Lines. If the DRL were to extend to at least Don Mills & Eglinton, most Markhamites would not need for the Yonge Line to get downtown.
