Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[sixrings]

but part of the problem is people know yonge street will eventually get transit so they are confident in buying there. If Eglinton had the same confidence and allowed development we might see a lot more people staying within the 416/

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Quoting raw density figures is not helpful - it's more important to look at the density around the catchment of the routes (or better yet, that of Richmond Hill/Markham. Can one sincerely make that comparison when this is what the region looks like:
http://www.york.ca/nr/ykregion/extpg/finance/annualreport2001/map_york_region.asp

AoD

 

[gweed123]

York Region
Population (2011)
Total 1,032,524
Density 585.9/km2 (1,517/sq mi)

Scarborough
Population (2006)
Total 602,575
Density 3,160.9/km2 (8,187/sq mi)

Q: What percentage of York Region is farmland?
A: A significantly larger percentage than Scarborough is.

Your numbers are skewed because of that. Take the farm land out and look at just developed land, and I'm sure you'd find similar numbers.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Show me the quote, because I said no such thing.

My bad, it may have been someone else

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

At the end of the day Scarborough is in the city and should get the subway first. It won't be hard to force a zoning. I'm talking the Danforth line to McCowan and Steeles. Sheppard should also run to Deer Park(NOT STC, the new Danforth Line will pass STC) You need to cover the whole borough.

Then ellesmere or lawrence in something.


And what exactly is wrong with expanding go train service to hourly off peak with rush hour service? It would carry more people

 

[trainiart]

York Region
Population (2011)
Total 1,032,524
Density 585.9/km2 (1,517/sq mi)

Scarborough
Population (2006)
Total 602,575
Density 3,160.9/km2 (8,187/sq mi)

Ignoring those numbers is just being dishonest.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. Nobody asks to extend the subway to Georgina, yet this is the York Region's sparsely populated Northern part that contributes the most to the low density.

Richmond Hill (2011):
Land Area: 100.62 km²
Population: 187,776
Density: 1,866.2/km²

Markham: 1,419.27/km², that again includes large sparsely populated areas to the north-east.

Vaugan: 1,054.0/km², again it includes large rural areas.

Thornhill (the electoral district) had population density 1,670.6/km² in 2006, given the growth rates it must be much higher now.

The difference doesn't look as pronounced any more, does it?

 

[xtremesniper]

York Region
Population (2011)
Total 1,032,524
Density 585.9/km2 (1,517/sq mi)

Scarborough
Population (2006)
Total 602,575
Density 3,160.9/km2 (8,187/sq mi)

So how about you compare apples to apples? You just compared an entire region (encompassing multiple towns and cities) to a subsect of one city (granted, a megacity).

Compare even just the immediate vicinity of Dufferin from the West to Bayview to the East from Steeles upwards to Major Mac and you'll have a better idea of the numbers. But even then, stopping at Bayview would be wrong. Dufferin I'm not so concerned about because they'll have the Spadina extension to play with.

 

[Solid Snake]

Lies, damn lies and statistics. Nobody asks to extend the subway to Georgina, yet this is the York Region's sparsely populated Northern part that contributes the most to the low density.

Richmond Hill (2011):
Land Area: 100.62 km²
Population: 187,776
Density: 1,866.2/km²

Markham: 1,419.27/km², that again includes large sparsely populated areas to the north-east.

Vaugan: 1,054.0/km², again it includes large rural areas.

Thornhill (the electoral district) had population density 1,670.6/km² in 2006, given the growth rates it must be much higher now.

The difference doesn't look as pronounced any more, does it?

even taking that into account, it's still triple the density. Most optimistic scenario removing all the farmland and just counting the urban area, over the double.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

This discussion is nutty. More than 30% of York Region is protected land in the Greenbelt or Oak Ridges Moraine and, even discounting that, there's still a fair amount of agricultural and other undeveloped lands that are totally separate from this subway discussion. The Richmond Hill density figure is a prime example. I don't think there's a MORAINE running through the middle of Toronto, is there? Cut off everything in RH north of Elgin Mills (after all, the subway isn't going up to Oak Ridges) and that density figure will spike significantly.

So, Markham is only 1/2 of Scarborough. Let's go back in time 40 years, pretend we're discussing extending the subway from Eglinton to Finch and see if we don't find the exact same argument about the density in Toronto vs. the density in North York. Without that extension (and North York Centre) the spine of condos stretching from the 401 to Finch wouldn't exist. I still don't see how their previous non-existence is a reason not to have built the subway. Quite the opposite, actually.

One might as well throw in the density of Etobicoke as proof the DRL isn't needed. No one disputes York Region is a "suburb" (in that it's further from downtown than Scarborough) but to suggest there's some radical difference, for example, between Willowdale and Thornhill is silly. The density along the Yonge corridor is surely comparable, based only on what's there today. The whole reason you GET auto-oriented areas like York Region is by failing to build the kind of transit that allows Scarborough to attain that higher density. We're really missing the whole cause/effect thing.

"Scarborough is in the city and should get the subway first," is a statement with no logic to it whatsoever and substantiates my earlier point that if the Toronto border were at Hwy. 7, this discussion wouldn't be happening. Maybe we should forget about antiquated, obsolete notions of what constitutes "the city" and what constitutes "the suburbs" based upon lines drawn by provincial bureaucrats on a map 40 years ago and build transit where it's needed and likely to achieve its ends.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

This discussion is nutty. More than 30% of York Region is protected land in the Greenbelt or Oak Ridges Moraine and, even discounting that, there's still a fair amount of agricultural and other undeveloped lands that are totally separate from this subway discussion. The Richmond Hill density figure is a prime example. I don't think there's a MORAINE running through the middle of Toronto, is there? Cut off everything in RH north of Elgin Mills (after all, the subway isn't going up to Oak Ridges) and that density figure will spike significantly.

So, Markham is only 1/2 of Scarborough. Let's go back in time 40 years, pretend we're discussing extending the subway from Eglinton to Finch and see if we don't find the exact same argument about the density in Toronto vs. the density in North York. Without that extension (and North York Centre) the spine of condos stretching from the 401 to Finch wouldn't exist. I still don't see how their previous non-existence is a reason not to have built the subway. Quite the opposite, actually.

One might as well throw in the density of Etobicoke as proof the DRL isn't needed. No one disputes York Region is a "suburb" (in that it's further from downtown than Scarborough) but to suggest there's some radical difference, for example, between Willowdale and Thornhill is silly. The density along the Yonge corridor is surely comparable, based only on what's there today. The whole reason you GET auto-oriented areas like York Region is by failing to build the kind of transit that allows Scarborough to attain that higher density. We're really missing the whole cause/effect thing.

"Scarborough is in the city and should get the subway first," is a statement with no logic to it whatsoever and substantiates my earlier point that if the Toronto border were at Hwy. 7, this discussion wouldn't be happening. Maybe we should forget about antiquated, obsolete notions of what constitutes "the city" and what constitutes "the suburbs" based upon lines drawn by provincial bureaucrats on a map 40 years ago and build transit where it's needed and likely to achieve its ends.

so lets dump more people on a already cramped line. without a drl(because we both now this will get built first because the ea is done.)

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

So what is wrong with the Richmond Hill GO line? they can't expand that instead?

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

so lets dump more people on a already cramped line. without a drl(because we both now this will get built first because the ea is done.)

That's not at all what I just said but if you want to go down that road I'll point out, for like the 20th time on this thread, that York Region AND Toronto completed an EA for the Yonge extension. it's effectively shovel ready. It was only during that process that the TTC started THINKING about the DRL. Toronto Council attached caveats but they already approved the Yonge extension. No reasonable person thinks the DRL isn't a priority or that isn't necessary to relieve the capacity issues but I'm not sure why the entire GTA should be punished for TTC's incompetence and lack of foresight. Build both projects, start with the one that's actually ready.

It's amusing that TTC will pitch the DRL as crucial not just for Toronto but for the REGION and then people turn around and bitch about how the Yonge subway is only serving the suburbs. It cuts both ways and if the TTC is going to be a big part of a larger regional network, it's time to start thinking a little bigger. Slowing down one of the few ambitious suburban transit plans isn't a good start.

And the GO line is an entirely separate argument, which has ALSO been discussed ad naeseum in this thread. It goes to Union Station. It doesn't help people commuting to Bloor or Eglinton or Sheppard or anywhere other than Union Station and it doesn't do anything whatsoever for the already-zoned intensification plans along Yonge Street. Even if GO or the subway expansion were announced tomorrow, it would in no way mitigate the need for the other.

 

[Ansem]

Question 1

Will York region pay for their share of the maintenance and operating costs of the subway extension into York Region?


Question 2

Before the merger than made Toronto what it is today, which Transit company was giving service to Scarborough, North York and Etobicoke?

Question 3

In what year did the Ontario government stopped subsidizing the TTC?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Question 1

Will York region pay for their share of the maintenance and operating costs of the subway extension into York Region?

If they follow the same formula used in the Spadina extension, no.

However, there are some benefits to this. Toronto should have exclusive control over the operation of the line. But my preferred arrangement will be for Toronto to have exclusive control over operation of the extension and for York Region to pick up the expenses.

Ultimately, the TTC and the various York Region transit services will fold into one. It doesn't make much sense to have multiple groups operating what will effectively be a single transportation system. Whether this will be operated by TTC or Metrolinx is yet to be seen.

Question 2

Before the merger than made Toronto what it is today, which Transit company was giving service to Scarborough, North York and Etobicoke?

The Toronto Transit Commission. It's been that way since at least Metro Toronto was formed in the 50s.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's not at all what I just said but if you want to go down that road I'll point out, for like the 20th time on this thread, that York Region AND Toronto completed an EA for the Yonge extension. it's effectively shovel ready.

Start the Yonge extension today and DRL sometime in the next few years. Then open both projects once the DRL is complete. I can’t see what is wrong with this solution. There’s nothing particularly unconventional about it.