Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The best way to get the DRL started is to have permanent regional funding tools. We shouldn't have to go looking in between our couch cushions every time we want to build some transit.

It's true. You can't neglect those suburban areas with overcrowded and poor bus service just like you can't neglect the overcrowded subway downtown. Both the suburban LRT lines and the new downtown-to-suburbs subway are needed, not just desirable. We have to address what's really needed in terms of transit by all means necessary for a functional transit system across the city.

Amen. Not that I don't support this, in fact I'll go farther then TJ and say walking from your house to RHC and a one seat ride to Union will only help transit in this region and make it look better, but the city needs to be taken care of. I love the buses but judging by Jane, Don Mills, DRL need to be done. And soon. Everything has to be done, we've already wasted too much time.

 

[diminutive]

The best way to get the DRL started is to cancel SELRT and FWLRT.

I think the best way to get the DRL funded is to actually figure out what it is.

Right now it's just the idea of a vaguely U or L shaped line which could operate to any number of final destination via any number of corridors. We don't have a good idea of where it will intersect with the YUS or BD lines. How it will cross downtown? What markets it will serve? And all of the secondary technical dimensions (station spacing, rolling stock, route design) which would flow from those?

The idea of the DRL practically predates the subway it's supposed to 'relieve'!

 

[GenerationW]

Operational integrity of the system is a serious matter. The situation here is different from TYSSE. TYSSE was not the TTC's first choice, but it did not put the existing operation in any kind of risk. Therefore, TTC agreed to get on board since the province wanted it.

In contrast, Yonge North will compromise the existing operation if not accompanied by adequate relief.

Furthermore, Ottawa will not lean on other stakeholders. At most, they will offer a portion of funding. If other stakeholders cannot come to a consensus, Ottawa will happily stay out of the matter.

I assume it would be some kind of Ottawa-Queen's Park-York Region consensus followed by some backroom negotiating with Toronto similar to what happened with Spadina. Miller eventually decided to publicly support Spadina even though he had campaigned on Sheppard. Would the Mayor and/or Council actually reject $2+ billion in the name of operational integrity? Say no to a very popular subway extension already designated as a priority? Fight against three other governments? Perhaps not even put it a vote? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Let's just hope there is some progress on a DRL before that might ever happen.

 

[BurlOak]

I don't agree. We have to do something for those areas. Especially Finch West.

I think those areas are already scheduled for improvement. The Spadina extension to Vaughan will shorten the Finch West trip by 6 kilometres. The extension of the SRT to Malvern will provide a direct connection to B-D (and eventually the DRL) for those on eastern Sheppard. Both those areas will receive articulated buses, and both those areas would probably prefer no LRT.

The best way to get the DRL started is to have permanent regional funding tools. We shouldn't have to go looking in between our couch cushions every time we want to build some transit.

This is true, but having an acceptable transit plan is needed first. It is obvious that the current plan is not accepted as evidenced by the small number of Mayoralty candidates that campaigned for Transit City. People will not give money for something they do not agree with.

I think the best way to get the DRL funded is to actually figure out what it is.

Right now it's just the idea of a vaguely U or L shaped line which could operate to any number of final destination via any number of corridors. We don't have a good idea of where it will intersect with the YUS or BD lines. How it will cross downtown? What markets it will serve? And all of the secondary technical dimensions (station spacing, rolling stock, route design) which would flow from those?

The idea of the DRL practically predates the subway it's supposed to 'relieve'!

This is definitely true. Metrolinx did vaguely propose a route a couple of years ago, and independently the TTC released their DRTES report last year, which did not even hint at a preferred route. Neither of these actually considered the physical limitations of the routes (i.e. buildings, curves, etc.). Also, Metrolinx and TTC must work together – no point in working independently when GO and TTC should be integrated.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

BurlOak:

People will not give money for something they do not agree with.

If one goes by this logic, then it's pretty much an automatic out for those individuals since they'd pretty much disagree with everything but a subway, regardless of how logical that demand is.

AoD

 

[innsertnamehere]

Metrolinx's funding plan does not include any money to further build out transit city, it only plans to fund the Hurontario LRT and Hamilton LRT, both of which are very popular in their respective municipalities. It plans to spend 10 billion on subways as well, with 7 billion for the DRL and 3 billion for the Yonge line. The only parts of transit city that metrolinx will be building will be the parts already funded. (SELRT, RT reconstruction, ECLRT, and the FWLRT)

 

[lead82]

I would love for both DRL and Yonge to be under construction. Until funding is secured and made permanent, the Yonge extension and DRL will just collect dust as they are still just ideas and reports. However, I don't want to get my hopes up because as always with infrastructure, the government and politicians have no guts to understand that this is a huge economic issue and only see the costs of construction rather than the investment in the region.

This will be the make it or break-it year for transit infrastructure. Once Metrolinx submits the final recommendations for funding to the province it will be up to Premier Wynne to champion it through as an election issue to get dedicated funding. The problem is that the Liberal's credibility to spend money wisely is very low. My biggest fear is that when push comes to shove, the majority will vote down the Liberals and vote a Hudak government to keep taxes low. This will be another setback in transit funding for another generation with essentially just the currently funded and under construction projects going ahead.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Amen. I think this is the year Metrolinx/the province put up or shut-up. I'll be amazed if we don't go to an election over this. On a larger scale it remains baffling that the Government of Canada doesn't see the obvious federal interest in Toronto having a functional transit system.

I'd only beg to differ in a minor way in pointing out that the Yonge extension and DRL aren't just ideas and reports. The DRL has barely advanced beyond the vague concept stage but the Yonge extension has a complete EA. Since there is a general consensus (I think) around here that both these projects are necessary, it's a crucial distinction that one was acted upon and one remains rather vague...

 

[innsertnamehere]

I too am concerned over it, the liberals could be sent to the polls if the vote doesn't go their way. (a vote on taxes can be considered a vote of non confidence). But Horwath seems open to the idea, on certain taxes. I have feeling she will be the one to decide what the taxes are, I specifically suspect some to come from tax loopholes like she has suggested (close all the loopholes and dedicate the portion that those loopholes brought in to transit), and some other form of tax to make up for the rest.

 

[gweed123]

I too am concerned over it, the liberals could be sent to the polls if the vote doesn't go their way. (a vote on taxes can be considered a vote of non confidence). But Horwath seems open to the idea, on certain taxes. I have feeling she will be the one to decide what the taxes are, I specifically suspect some to come from tax loopholes like she has suggested (close all the loopholes and dedicate the portion that those loopholes brought in to transit), and some other form of tax to make up for the rest.

Based on the most recent set of polls, I don't think the NDP will be clamouring for an election anytime soon. They've dropped off quite a bit, and based on those polls they'd still be the 3rd party, but will fewer seats than they have today. I've said it before and I'll say it again: until the polls indicate the NDP has a reasonable chance of forming government, they won't go for an election.

As for the Yonge extension and the DRL, yes they are in two completely different places right now. The Yonge extension could start digging TBM launch shafts before the end of the year if funding arrives. The DRL doesn't even have a defined alignment.

 

[lead82]

The fact that DRL doesn't have an EA or anything complete is the fault of the City of Toronto and by extension the TTC. This should be their number one priority and they should at least start working on the EA to get this project shovel ready when funding does arise. The TTC seems to thing that they can squeeze more out of the Yonge line. That's simply not true. The bigger trains and improved signalling wont make any difference. Already today they can't even keep 2-3 minute headways during rush-hour as the dwell times are too long at certain stations and any problem on the line causes a huge delay. I doubt with this level of congestion they can get 10% more riders down the line. The only way to do that would be to make the TTC run like clock-work where trains are always on time and delays are rare. That's never going to happen with the current culture at the TTC and the riding patrons who are often the ones to blame for holding up service.

I too agree about the NDP. I have no respect for Andrea. She keeps talking about the every-day people yet she completely ignore the fact that it is mostly her constituents who don't have cars and rely most on public transit that she hopes to fund through closing loopholes that would fall into general revenue and never to be seen again (See $10B deficit). It boggles my mind why she wont get behind even considering supporting dedicated revenues. Heck, in my opinion we should start doing this more for all infrastructure. Road, rail, transit, hospitals, schools should all have dedicated revenue streams instead of just melting them into one giant pot. It would make it a whole lot more transparent on where the money goes.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The fact that DRL doesn't have an EA or anything complete is the fault of the City of Toronto and by extension the TTC. This should be their number one priority and they should at least start working on the EA to get this project shovel ready when funding does arise.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the TTC doing this right now.

 

[Transportfan]

^^^ That was only an April Fools joke, unfortunately.

 

[gweed123]

The fact that DRL doesn't have an EA or anything complete is the fault of the City of Toronto and by extension the TTC. This should be their number one priority and they should at least start working on the EA to get this project shovel ready when funding does arise. The TTC seems to thing that they can squeeze more out of the Yonge line. That's simply not true. The bigger trains and improved signalling wont make any difference. Already today they can't even keep 2-3 minute headways during rush-hour as the dwell times are too long at certain stations and any problem on the line causes a huge delay. I doubt with this level of congestion they can get 10% more riders down the line. The only way to do that would be to make the TTC run like clock-work where trains are always on time and delays are rare. That's never going to happen with the current culture at the TTC and the riding patrons who are often the ones to blame for holding up service.

I once did the math on it for a project in university. Even with all of the Yonge capacity improvements in place (new signals, new TRs, etc), the ridership to capacity ratio is projected to be only 3.5% lower in 2031 than it is now. So basically all of these capacity improvements are just treading water, at best.

I too agree about the NDP. I have no respect for Andrea. She keeps talking about the every-day people yet she completely ignore the fact that it is mostly her constituents who don't have cars and rely most on public transit that she hopes to fund through closing loopholes that would fall into general revenue and never to be seen again (See $10B deficit). It boggles my mind why she wont get behind even considering supporting dedicated revenues. Heck, in my opinion we should start doing this more for all infrastructure. Road, rail, transit, hospitals, schools should all have dedicated revenue streams instead of just melting them into one giant pot. It would make it a whole lot more transparent on where the money goes.

Yes, that surprised me as well. I would have thought she would have been a champion for revenue tools. Instead, she spewed the same BS that Hudak did, she just phrased it differently. Very disappointing.

 

[nfitz]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the TTC doing this right now.

Almost - first they are "... proceeding with Phase 2 of the Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study to determine a preferred alignment, technology, station locations and property protection requirements for the first phase of a relief line from the east connecting the Danforth Subway with the downtown". Though council already approved that they proceed with the EA.

^^^ That was only an April Fools joke, unfortunately.

And that's why it didn't work well as an April Fools joke. A similar article about the Scarborough Relief Line, or the North York Relief Line, or a subway to Toronto Island would have worked better ...