Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[guste]

Any educated guesses as to when construction will start? Mississauga's goal was to have this "shovel-ready" and from my understanding, they've completed the EA and the TPAP:

http://lrt-mississauga.brampton.ca/EN/Process-and-Timelines/Pages/Welcome.aspx

Is it just waiting on the finished design, at this point?

When you look at Chart 1.9 in section B of the budget, it doesn't reference that the EA has been completed, so I'm curious what that's about and if it's an ominous sign for the start of construction.

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/budget/ontariobudgets/2015/ch1b.html#ch1b_5

**EDIT**

I just found the info:

http://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2015/04/hurontario-main-light-rail-transit.html

Construction starting in 2018 with an in-service date in 2022 (That's a disappointment).

 

[Toffy]

Any educated guesses as to when construction will start? Mississauga's goal was to have this "shovel-ready" and from my understanding, they've completed the EA and the TPAP:
—
Construction starting in 2018 with an in-service date in 2022 (That's a disappointment).

We've already had a significant amount of discussion about this earlier in the thread, although admittedly it's been clouded out by all the non-relevant discussion that's occured here.

Assuming this project goes through Infrastructure Ontario's Alternative Financing Procurement (AFP) model, it still has to go through two lengthy processes. The Request For Qualifications (RFQ), where construction companies form consortiums with various other construction companies and financial institutions (to finance the works) to meet all the qualifications needed. After the RFQ closes, the province will shortlist the most able consortiums and release a Request For Proposals (RFP) to those shortlisted companies. Those companies will then draft up proposals and the province will then select the best proposal.

The RFQ phase (issue-release of RFP) will likely take about half a year, if not more and the RFP phase will likely take a year to a year and half before anything is awarded.

I would say the start date of 2018 is more realistic than 2017, even if they were to start the whole process tomorrow.

If we don't see the RFQ for this project released by the end of this year or very early 2016, then I would start worrying about the 2018 date slipping. I have a feeling that the Liberal government wants this project already awarded by the time campaigns start for the 2018 election. It would prop their election platform up a bit in the Mississauga-Brampon region at the least.

 

[TOareaFan]

We've already had a significant amount of discussion about this earlier in the thread, although admittedly it's been clouded out by all the non-relevant discussion that's occured here.

Assuming this project goes through Infrastructure Ontario's Alternative Financing Procurement (AFP) model, it still has to go through two lengthy processes. The Request For Qualifications (RFQ), where construction companies form consortiums with various other construction companies and financial institutions (to finance the works) to meet all the qualifications needed. After the RFQ closes, the province will shortlist the most able consortiums and release a Request For Proposals (RFP) to those shortlisted companies. Those companies will then draft up proposals and the province will then select the best proposal.

The RFQ phase (issue-release of RFP) will likely take about half a year, if not more and the RFP phase will likely take a year to a year and half before anything is awarded.

I would say the start date of 2018 is more realistic than 2017, even if they were to start the whole process tomorrow.

If we don't see the RFQ for this project released by the end of this year or very early 2016, then I would start worrying about the 2018 date slipping. I have a feeling that the Liberal government wants this project already awarded by the time campaigns start for the 2018 election. It would prop their election platform up a bit in the Mississauga-Brampon region at the least.

I am confused by where any confusion is coming from....when they announced the funding they said construction would start in 2018

 

[Markster]

We've already had a significant amount of discussion about this earlier in the thread, although admittedly it's been clouded out by all the non-relevant discussion that's occured here.

Again, here's the timeline for Waterloo LRT for comparison:

2005 - Consultations begin for Waterloo Region rapid transit
2009 - Council approves LRT, subject to additional funding from the Province and Feds
2009 Oct - Province announces funding support ($300M)
2010 June - Feds announce funding support ($253M)
2011 May - Post-election Council re-votes for LRT
2012 Feb - Design-Build-Finance-Maintain-Operate bundled contract is selected as method of procurement
2012 May - EA completed
2012 Oct - Request For Qualifications (RFQ) solicited
2013 May - Request For Proposals (RFP) issued to the three qualified bidding consortiums.
2014 Jan - Bids revealed
2014 Mar - Winning bid selected
2014 Aug - Groundbreaking on Maintenance and Storage facility.
2014 Oct - Election is fought with anti-LRT candidates threatening to pull the plug, but thankfully, most of them lose.

Some of the wait times:
2 years 4 months from funding announced by upper tiers until RFQ
1 year 5 months from last vote on LRT until RFQ (a.k.a. 11 months of hand-wringing over the $225M local commitment)
7 months between RFQ and RFP
10 months between RFP and winning bid selected
1 year 5 months between RFQ and winning bid selected
5 months between winning bid and construction starting (however in the year leading up to groundbreaking, various utility upgrades/relocations on the corridor had already begun, as they were works otherwise scheduled to be done in the next few years regardless. They were fast-tracked in anticipation of LRT. Aug 2014 is when construction began on things that would be 100% wasted effort if LRT were cancelled.)

 

[Toffy]

I am confused by where any confusion is coming from....when they announced the funding they said construction would start in 2018

I suggest you reffer to the post I was replying to and/or read the sentence you bolded more clearly. Either or would have sufficed to have cleared up any of your confusion.

I was simply clearing up why the start date of construction isn't until 2018. Once again, due to the lengthy procurement process, even if the process were to start tomorrow a 2018 start date is much more realistic than a 2017 start date.

 

[TOareaFan]

June 11 might be an important day for this line (well for the part of it north of Steeles anyway).

PeterCriscione ‏@iPolitypus 5m5 minutes ago
Opposition to #brampoli mayor’s downtown LRT plan gaining ground: http://bit.ly/1AQiBUT

 

[drum118]

June 11 might be an important day for this line (well for the part of it north of Steeles anyway).

PeterCriscione ‏@iPolitypus 5m5 minutes ago
Opposition to #brampoli mayor’s downtown LRT plan gaining ground: http://bit.ly/1AQiBUT

As it was stated to me last week in Mississauga, this is a Metrolinx project now and they are now going to call the shot how the line gets built as well running it.

Its time for Metrolinx taking a stronger position on the Big Move Plans and force the cities to stand a side to build a transit system that meets the needs of the many, not the NIMBY folks.

I support the mix surface section in the DT of Brampton and quality of service is not going to effected that much by it. On street parking has to go.

I hope Metrolinx takes a real close look at the Loop in Mississauga, as it will not get riders faster by Sq One than it is today to the point it could be longer on the splits line.

This is not as long as Phoenix line, but will carry more riders if just a straight line and connect to all 3 GO lines than Phoenix line. Since there is no real further service plan between the Lakeshore Line and Georgetown, this line will cut riders trip traveling time between those 2 point, even with backtracking taking place.

 

[TOareaFan]

As it was stated to me last week in Mississauga, this is a Metrolinx project now and they are now going to call the shot how the line gets built as well running it.

Its time for Metrolinx taking a stronger position on the Big Move Plans and force the cities to stand a side to build a transit system that meets the needs of the many, not the NIMBY folks.

While some of the opposition in Brampton is NIMBY (and at one point it was mostly NIMBY) by people living in the immediate area....it has morphed somewhat now and the growing aspect of it is people who are neither affected by it nor helped by it. As someone in the linked article pointed out

“We need an LRT that benefits all of Brampton, not just the six kilometres between the Mississauga border and the downtown core,”

I support the mix surface section in the DT of Brampton and quality of service is not going to effected that much by it. On street parking has to go.

Clearly if it is a surface route taking over 2 of the 4 lanes on Main Street then yes the surface parking has to go. I think, however, if you tie that with the quote above you might see what some of the businesses are concerned about.....if this line serves so few of the people in Brampton it will have virtually no effect on how customers arrive at their door....and if they feel they need on street parking to survive now....how will this line change that?

I hope Metrolinx takes a real close look at the Loop in Mississauga, as it will not get riders faster by Sq One than it is today to the point it could be longer on the splits line.

That loop definitely needs to be looked at....and the sad part about the growing opposition in Brampton is that it will give an excuse for people to shine the light on the Brampton situation (again) without the really big problem that the loop presents.

This is not as long as Phoenix line, but will carry more riders if just a straight line and connect to all 3 GO lines than Phoenix line. Since there is no real further service plan between the Lakeshore Line and Georgetown, this line will cut riders trip traveling time between those 2 point, even with backtracking taking place.

At 47 minutes between the Georgetown line and the Lakeshore line....is this really gonna entice a great number of people out of their cars t make that trip?

 

[drum118]

While some of the opposition in Brampton is NIMBY (and at one point it was mostly NIMBY) by people living in the immediate area....it has morphed somewhat now and the growing aspect of it is people who are neither affected by it nor helped by it. As someone in the linked article pointed out
It makes no different where I go for transit events like this, its the same story over and over. If one spend time and watch who is parking and where they are going to, its not this lost of business as claim. In fact, it for the owners and staff to park close to where live or work.

Maybe not at the time that the line open, will these business see walk-in traffic from the line. Many times I see a business that new and maybe has something I need to the point I have got off buses or streetcars and had a look. Then it may happen a few days later when I have the time. Not everyone has the right business for the right area.

Clearly if it is a surface route taking over 2 of the 4 lanes on Main Street then yes the surface parking has to go. I think, however, if you tie that with the quote above you might see what some of the businesses are concerned about.....if this line serves so few of the people in Brampton it will have virtually no effect on how customers arrive at their door....and if they feel they need on street parking to survive now....how will this line change that?



That loop definitely needs to be looked at....and the sad part about the growing opposition in Brampton is that it will give an excuse for people to shine the light on the Brampton situation (again) without the really big problem that the loop presents.

At 47 minutes between the Georgetown line and the Lakeshore line....is this really gonna entice a great number of people out of their cars t make that trip?

When I was doing my part of last year transit report for the GTA, I said this LRT would cut 70 minutes travel time going from Burlington to Georgetown if not more depend on the day of the week. Riders would have to do less backtracking using this line than going into Toronto to get to Georgetown like they do today.

As for benefiting Brampton, the lines need to go north to the city limit that I call for back in 2006 as Phase 2 of 5 phases. More so, removing 2 blocks of on street parking will make traffic flow a lot better than today.

The Master transportation Plan for the Lakeshore Rd is getting underway and expect to take 18 months to do. This will tell how the LRT will get to DT Port Credit as well if it is going to Long Branch and will it go west of PC as well where.

What is needed to deal with these NIMBY folks as well what car will not do, is take them to NYC and Europe. One only has to go to Time Square in NYC to see the major change for the better by the past Ex mayor and the Commissioner of Transportation. There are other places in the city that function better today with less parking spaces as well more bike areas on the road.

You could bring in a few mayors for Paris to hear what they told their citizens about having no parking on the streets as well having no turning lanes like we do.

 

[TOareaFan]

I will, as always, defer to your superior knowledge of world transit systems......but I would suggest that comparing how businesses operate and thrive without on street parking to how it would work in DT Brampton is likely going to just get those businesses in DT Brampton to not listen to your broader case. It is an apples and oranges comparison and will just lead them to think you are not listening to them....so they will respond with not listening to you (you not being in the "personal" sense but meaning anyone that made that case to them).

 

[Dan416]

I'm so tired of Brampton complaining about the LRT. It's been planned for years and there's been so much public consultation about this already. I work in Brampton and I despise the place.

 

[JayBeeGooner]

My hometown is such a joke. There's little heritage character in Brampton worth saving, and cities with heritage worth preserving have built LRT with no issues.
Brampton would be foolish to pass this opportunity, just to appease a few people who think Downtown Brampton is actually a destination worth visiting.

 

[mdrejhon]

One LRT direction lane for each parallel street might help satisfy the parking lobby. It might move the LRT faster (maybe even traffic separated!) and preserve one streetside parking as a quid pro quo.

Some cities do this -- it is not perfect but it is an option that sits on the table.

 

[CDL.TO]

Running the LRT in mixed traffic for a couple of blocks through downtown Brampton is perfectly fine. Set up the traffic signals so that the LRT is the first to go at the end of the dedicated section and ban all turns at Queen St.

 

[ShonTron]

My hometown is such a joke. There's little heritage character in Brampton worth saving, and cities with heritage worth preserving have built LRT with no issues.
Brampton would be foolish to pass this opportunity, just to appease a few people who think Downtown Brampton is actually a destination worth visiting.

Except that Downtown Brampton has a pretty good collection of heritage buildings (PAMA/the old courthouse/jail, the Dominion Building, the railway station, the Carnegie Library, some of the commercial blocks, the churches, the factories at Mill and Railroad, and many houses. But that the LRT doesn't take away from any of it. So I don't get the heritage argument, except it's an easy excuse for NIMBYism.