Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Looking at downtown Brampton (see link) having an LRT run through it in mixed traffic would actually slow down the traffic flow and actually allow the drivers to see the storefronts. Better than whizzing by at top speed, and seeing nothing because they can't be distracted. Better for the businesses if both LRT passengers and single-occupant automobile drivers see the businesses.

Compare it with say downtown Toronto and its mixed traffic streetcars. See link.
 
traffic in downtown brampton isn't moving quickly today already, its pretty congested. Mind you Queen is busier than Main too. Besides, what these people are all really concerned about is the loss of on street parking.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Looking at downtown Brampton (see link) having an LRT run through it in mixed traffic would actually slow down the traffic flow and actually allow the drivers to see the storefronts. Better than whizzing by at top speed, and seeing nothing because they can't be distracted. Better for the businesses if both LRT passengers and single-occupant automobile drivers see the businesses.

Compare it with say downtown Toronto and its mixed traffic streetcars. See link.
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I propose one LRT lane:
- One LRT lane on Main Street (for northward movement)
- One LRT lane on George Street (for southward movement)
- For two blocks only.

This has the advantage for Brampton downtown:
- Traffic separated LRT lane with easy traffic priority
- Two dedicated car traffic lanes
- One curbside parking (could be traffic lane in morning)

I suggest northwards direction for Main street
- Incoming LRT people (northwards) will see downtown, so good opportunity to bring people to Brampton business.
- Outgoing LRT people (southwards) aren't likely to get off downtown.

This separates LRT interference from cars. LRTs would go north on Main street, turn left on Nelson street (Brampton GO station stop), turn south on George street, go 2 blocks, turn left on Wellington Street, then right back onto Main street. This keeps the LRT moving fast without traffic contention. During morning peak, traffic often occurs on Brampton on one side of the road keeping the curbside lane with fewer cars than the leftmost lane, so the side with the least traffic during morning peak can be given over to the LRT.

Brampton wishing to go south can still catch the northwards LRT, knowing it will loop around in less than two blocks, so they don't have to walk to Wellington Street to catch the LRT. And the bonus is downtown residents get a seat on the LRT before the GO station crunch.

It's an idea worth considering and might potentially end up being less frustrating than mixed traffic (see Toronto streetcar traffic). This needs to be evaluated on its merits compared to other options, perhaps via a computer simulation too, to find congestion differences.
 
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Hopkins123 said:
What's so bad about an underground alignment north of Nanwood?
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You want it, you pay for it out of your pocket, not mine.

The cost of building that tunnel could do a lot more else where better by providing more service, buses, expansion to other areas. You will need a loop tunnel as well if single track. Also, you are dealing with underground rivers in the area as well the flood plains.

Its the same old story that transit must not be seen and put underground so the single drivers can run wild on the surface.

Having a loop is not in the plan and will cost more. Until service gets down to less than 5 minutes a single track as propose above, will work with a duel track station.
 
Why underground north of Nanwood though? There seems plenty of space along Main. The problem is within downtown. The LRT was originally proposed to loop through downtown, one way along St. George and Main, I don't know why they changed that. I guess they are thinking of future extension to the north.
 
The George and Main alternative doesn't preclude further extension to the north.

Another alternative that I've never heard discussed is to run both directions on George and keep the on-street parking along Main. That would probably support a lot of new mixed-use development along George, while still "preserving" Main street.
 
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doady said:
Why underground north of Nanwood though? There seems plenty of space along Main. The problem is within downtown. The LRT was originally proposed to loop through downtown, one way along St. George and Main, I don't know why they changed that. I guess they are thinking of future extension to the north.
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What space though?



The corridor is pretty much boxed in and narrow. Would you reduce Hurontario/Main to only two through lanes? Expropriate the front lawns of local residents? Mixed traffic service through the Heritage District (Olde Brampton) would not be beneficial to neither transit users nor motorists. Going underground avoids four traffic lights and eleven intersections. Think of how much time commuters would save bypassing those annoying lights at Wellington and Queen where traffic moves at crawl's pace. I hate the attitude the just because one is in favour of grade separate transit they are somehow anti-transit.
 
Maybe because it would cost $200 million just to appease some NIMBY's which is just a waste money. The costs outweigh any benefits.
 
Anyone who lives in Brampton (as I did, for 25 years) knows that driving on Main through downtown is a stupid choice due to the traffic from the on-street parking. And therefore avoid it.

Translation: removing two lanes for the LRT will only inconvenience those drivers that are too uncreative to use those alternate routes around Four Corners.

Extended translation: the surface LRT will only inconvenience a few NIMBYs that have no right to dictate to the rest of Brampton where the LRT should go.

Keep it smack-dab down Main through Queen which is a critical intersection in that city.
 
Hopkins123 said:
What space though?



The corridor is pretty much boxed in and narrow. Would you reduce Hurontario/Main to only two through lanes? Expropriate the front lawns of local residents? Mixed traffic service through the Heritage District (Olde Brampton) would not be beneficial to neither transit users nor motorists. Going underground avoids four traffic lights and eleven intersections. Think of how much time commuters would save bypassing those annoying lights at Wellington and Queen where traffic moves at crawl's pace. I hate the attitude the just because one is in favour of grade separate transit they are somehow anti-transit.
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C'mon, dude. I am all for grade-separated transit. And of course getting rid of parallel parking on main streets is a fundamentally bad idea, bad for motorists, bad for businesses, bad for pedestrians, bad for everyone. That's why I think a loop or even full two-way alignment on St. George is better option. That's why I am even participating in this discussion. Two-way light rail on Main through Downtown Brampton is a terrible, terrible idea.

As for that picture, yes, I see plenty of space there with those huge setbacks from the street (and I'm not sure a lot of widening would even be needed to begin with since there is no parallel parking there).

But do you realize what will happen to those houses when the LRT is built? I mean, just look at some of the houses along Hurontario in Mississauga near Mineola, and this is before LRT. Or look at what happened to the houses along Queen St in the north part of Streetsville. Single-family houses became offices.

So to build a subway in that scene? You really think building a subway under there is the best way to protect those single-family residences? I think the opposite is true.

If you want things to stay the same, they you don't build LRT, whether on street or underground. That's why I'm not worried about a few residents losing part of their front lawns. Chances are, even with underground LRT, or especially with an underground LRT, nobody will be living in those houses anyways.
 
doady said:
If you want things to stay the same, they you don't build LRT, whether on street or underground. That's why I'm not worried about a few residents losing part of their front lawns. Chances are, even with underground LRT, or especially with an underground LRT, nobody will be living in those houses anyways.
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You make a really good point - the LRT will irrevocably change downtown Brampton in any scenario. Densification will see to that. The heritage buildings may be saved, but the specific businesses that are there now won't last, not because parallel parking is lost, but because the landlords along that block will raise the rents as the area densifies.

What is needed is a clear plan for what the downtown should become. The developers will decide to tear down those houses, and the OMB will be there ready to assist them. Brampton needs a plan, and 'keeping things as they are' isn't a plan.

So I would just lay tracks right up Main Street, and let the changes begin. Although i would also favour a short stretch of tunnel. I'm wondering if that should have happened in Kitchener also, instead of taking the long way around the centre. It's just too inefficient to run an LRT around corners in a confined downtown.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
So I would just lay tracks right up Main Street, and let the changes begin. Although i would also favour a short stretch of tunnel. I'm wondering if that should have happened in Kitchener also, instead of taking the long way around the centre. It's just too inefficient to run an LRT around corners in a confined downtown.
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In Kitchener, we're happy to not have to pay for the 1.5km long tunnel that would be required!
If we have problems with the LRT being held up by traffic lights too much, and downtown is a real bottleneck, I'm all in favour of building a tunnel bypass in 30 years.
 
pstogios said:
Extended translation: the surface LRT will only inconvenience a few NIMBYs that have no right to dictate to the rest of Brampton where the LRT should go.
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Of course that ignores/dismisses the growing (and I would say now largest) opposition group within Brampton....people who do not live near/on Main and think that that the problem with the route is that it does virtually nothing for the vast majority of them. I guess that is what happens when you build your one and only wee bit of rapid transit on a route that is, neither the highest used transit route in the city (think it is 4th or 5th) nor the busiest car route (not even sure it cracks the top 5).

So those Main Street NIMBY's may be trying to "dictate" to the rest of Brampton where the LRT should go....but I would guess they would get a lot of support from the people in other, busier, parts of the city....perhaps those people are PIMBY (Please, In My Back Yard)? ;)
 
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