Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

I am wary of Metrolinx owning TTC infrastructure. What if a Harris or Hudak is elected in the future?
Valid concern, but by then, Toronto is a lion's share of Ontario. And Metrolinx might be operating transit accessible to half of Ontario -- especially if Metrolinx ends up operating Ontario HSR by 2035 too as well. You'd lose Ontario voters quite instantly -- By 2035, it'd be as politically difficult as shutting down a freeway.
 
I am wary of Metrolinx owning TTC infrastructure. What if a Harris or Hudak is elected in the future?

I'd much rather have Metrolinx act as a coordinator between various transit agencies.

Clearly the province can't be trusted to operate local transit. They've screwed us over too many times before.
 
Valid concern, but by then, Toronto is a lion's share of Ontario. And Metrolinx might be operating transit accessible to half of Ontario -- especially if Metrolinx ends up operating Ontario HSR by 2035 too as well. You'd lose Ontario voters quite instantly -- By 2035, it'd be as politically difficult as shutting down a freeway.

Nobody in Toronto votes for the PC. They have nothing to lose by screwing us over, like they did in the 90s.
 
If you follow or were at the various meetings held under the now Metrolinx in 2007 and since then, you would have seen and heard various ideas floated what could, may and will happen over time with the creation of the Regional Transit Authority.

Evening talking to the various personnel who no longer work for Metrolinx, you still get the same results today.

Even before the Eglinton line was on the books, there was talked at Metrolinx taking control of the subway system some years ago, but back off as there was too much opposition to it nor was Metrolinx in a strong position to do so.

Metrolinx wants the London Model here where things are control by various parties (P3 & Cities) working under one name, uniform and management.

I have followed those meetings. Yes, ideas have been discussed and debated, sure, the whole point is to discuss and debate ideas. If anything, it would be stranger if the idea hadn't been discussed.

At no point has Metrolinx planned "to take [over] all the systems over including TTC". There's a BIG gap between "ideas floated" and "plans".

First and foremost, they don't want to deal with the costs associated with operating local transit. It's funny if you think of it... Metrolinx has been simultaneously been accused of being blind to local transit while also been accused of wanting to take over local transit.

Yes, Metrolinx wants coordination between all the local systems so that transit users can have a seamless experience across the region. That doesn't mean they want to take over control of all the local systems (no matter what the TTC may say).
 
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I'd much rather have Metrolinx act as a coordinator between various transit agencies.

Clearly the province can't be trusted to operate local transit. They've screwed us over too many times before.
A balance is needed. Too much city control is bad. Too much provincial control is bad.
But right now we have too much city control. And it's not working.
Too much city control of public transit isn't working for the last 25 years.

- Transit City MIA
- Eglinton Subway(1990s) construction interrupted & tunnel filled in
- Sheppard expensive stubway
- St. Clair isn't significantly sped up as it should have been.
- Scarborough RT/LRT/subway indecision and expense.
- Vaughan delay.
- Enough said.
- Toronto's public has not yet entered a new subway station for the last 20 years!

When Metrolinx was born just barely under a decade ago, a huge fire has been lit under Toronto's transit progress. They have done more in the last 10 years than TTC did in the last 25 years! Even all the Metrolinx delays/boondoggles/waste combined, look like minor setbacks in comparison. Lots of new GO stations in the last 20 years. Lots of service increase (even if falling short of promise). Even their stupendously expensive airport train is, otherwise, a masterpiece of beautiful non-public-transit that is almost guaranteed to be popular/profitable (Even if it should have been a larger, higher-frequency cheap $3 public transit train instead, with better economic benefits to general public). Metrolinx European style LRTs, with proper stop spacing, better project management (even if imperfect), and proper traffic signal priority, will move twice as fast as TTC streetcars. And their continual GO upgrades have been wonderful as of late (e.g. Lakeshore 30-min allday) even if the upgrades aren't coming as fast as we hope. The Metrolinx mistakes look a mere detail compared to the TTC messes of the last 20 years.

Likewise, too much provincial control of public transit means we get a system that doesn't always serve city needs. So a balance needs to exist. A happy equilibrium will need to be reached, but I suspect slightly less city wrangling and slightly more provincial control. City control and provincial control should be balanced to be checks on each other. Whether it's inefficiency by operations, politics, cost overruns, corporate culture, etc.

Ever since Metrolinx started (love or hate them), they've certainly lit a bit of a fire in the Toronto transit scene a bit more than the 10 years right before Metrolinx... Now we're about to receive a bona-fide doubling of the size of Toronto's high-frequency "subway-convenience" network (with GO RER 15-min allday and new integrated interchange stations) -- is threatening to make recent TTC look really bad, especially if they don't up their game in the next 10 years. Even though cheap public transit has bigger economic benefits, the Scarborough extension is so ultra-expensive that even the UPX "luxury train" actually ends up ironically having better economic benefit to society than the three Scarborough stations. Even I myself even prefer the move of better subsidized inexpensive public transit, this is quite the irony that UPX is socially better than the three Scarborough stations because UPX cost less than 10% of Scarborough subway (and the improved business of UPX giving economic spinoffs apparently outweigh the economic benefit of replacing 8 RT stations with 3 subway stations). How stupid is that from a socialist point of view, that UPX is socially better than Scarborough subway extension from its overall society benefit perspective!? Which is kind of silly and ironic, even as I myself would have preferred UPX to cost $3 and use bigger subway-style trains that has more public transit stations. A Scarborough LRT would have helped a lot more Scarborough residents, and actually provided a faster way to downtown -- it's rapid European style LRT with complete grade separation, that might even have ended up moving faster than the RT, and not a slow TTC streetcar, and a shorter walk to many stations rather than a bus-transfer away. And now they pay higher property tax for far less. Plus, even the other Metrolinx nitpicks and delays such as Georgetown Corridor and their 'share' of Union revitalization delays doesn't even look nearly as bad as the Vaughan subway extension delay, and potential continued tension over the Scarborough subway, for example. And probably forcing TTC to confront itself, choosing someone who's finally willing to work with Metrolinx, Andy Byford is working harder than past TTC management. Credit where credit is due - Metrolinx is the best thing that happened to TTC.

We'll hopefully see a far more efficient TTC in the next ten years, thanks to Metrolinx prodding them down the right path.
 
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Nobody in Toronto votes for the PC. They have nothing to lose by screwing us over, like they did in the 90s.

...below is not directed at you TigerMaster...just a general observation.

There are people in Toronto that vote for the PC's, just there were none elected. Unfortunately they are the silent minority when looking at the Toronto results.

Liberals in Toronto had 49% of all the votes but received 91% of the seats

% of votes

Central Toronto—Scarborough (11 ridings)
NDP - 26%
PC - 20%

North York—Etobicoke-York (11 riding)
NDP - 19%
PC - 27%.

http://wilfday.blogspot.com/2014/12/ontarios-2014-election-results-with.html

So in fact there were about the same number of PC voters in Toronto than NDP voters. And if we had PR (which I do not agree with) there would be the same number of PC and NDP MPP's from Toronto.
 
A balance is needed. Too much city control is bad. Too much provincial control is bad.
But right now we have too much city control. And it's not working.
Too much city control of public transit isn't working for the last 25 years.

- Transit City MIA
- Eglinton Subway(1990s) construction interrupted & tunnel filled in
- Sheppard expensive stubway
- St. Clair isn't significantly sped up as it should have been.
- Scarborough RT/LRT/subway indecision and expense.
- Vaughan delay.
- Enough said.
- Toronto's public has not yet entered a new subway station for the last 20 years!

Transit City - province delayed funding, allowing mayor to get away with cancelling
Eglinton Subway - province killed it
Sheppard Stubway -province killed half of it (section from Don Mills to Scarborough TC)
Scarborough RT - province created the mess in the first place with the LIM technology instead of regular LRT
Vaughan - provincial ex-minister driving force behind this extension

Sounds like provincial meddling hasn't been helping the situation.

Oh and by the way the Sheppard Subway opened in 2002, which was actually 13 years ago.
 
Sounds like provincial meddling hasn't been helping the situation.
True, but most of the meddling was pre-Metrolinx (Eglinton, Sheppard, Scarborough RT).

In the Metrolinx era:
- Vaughan subway wasn't cancelled (delay from construction inefficiencies by TTC/city fault)
- Transit City wasn't cancelled by province (city did)

Minor recent meddling aside, ontario/Metrolinx didn't kill those.
Metrolinx is famous for delaying and postponing things, but they aren't famous for cancellations of the pre-Metrolinx magnitude, and Metrolinx projects with shovels in ground have generally kept progressing and delivered eventually (thus far, even if delayed).

I'd say we're doing much better in the Metrolinx era with less Ontario "meddle" and more "get things progressing".
Ontario probably won't cancel Scarborough, but what if Toronto (the city) decided to? (See: RIP Transit City)
 
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It might merit a separate thread to avoid sidetracking topics, yes... (e.g. "Evolution of TTC/Metrolinx's share of Toronto transit expansion" or something catchall) It's still in spirit of UrbanToronto's Transportation forum, and can be avoided/participated.
 
...below is not directed at you TigerMaster...just a general observation.

There are people in Toronto that vote for the PC's, just there were none elected. Unfortunately they are the silent minority when looking at the Toronto results.

Liberals in Toronto had 49% of all the votes but received 91% of the seats

% of votes

Central Toronto—Scarborough (11 ridings)
NDP - 26%
PC - 20%

North York—Etobicoke-York (11 riding)
NDP - 19%
PC - 27%.

http://wilfday.blogspot.com/2014/12/ontarios-2014-election-results-with.html

So in fact there were about the same number of PC voters in Toronto than NDP voters. And if we had PR (which I do not agree with) there would be the same number of PC and NDP MPP's from Toronto.

When I meant "nobody", I didn't literally mean nobody. I mean to say that they have so little support that it's unlikely they'll pick up any seats. So they really don't have much to lose by ignoring Toronto interests.
 
That has nothing to do with Metrolinx, and everything to do with provincial funding.
I think both Metrolinx and increased provincial funding goes hand-in-hand.

Diversifying away from GO-only operations (former "GO Transit"), to making public transit happen (now generically "Metrolinx"). Increased funding made "GO transit" go beyond mandate, they became renamed to more generic "Metrolinx" because of the increased funding, and pushing The Big Move (through political intertia) as much as it is able to. With Metrolinx going far beyond traditional GO with ECLRT, Hurontario, UPX, Presto, Sheppard LRT (resume ~2017), possible future DRL, converting GO to a de-facto surface subway (via GO RER), possible future HSR, etc, it's starting to look like it's making a hell lot more Ontario transit projects happen than they did in the last 25 years. This helps give city hall & TTC a little bit of indirect competition in transit-project consistency/success/completion rate, and now Tory and Andy Byford has to keep up.
 
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