Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

A TTC/Metrolinx merger? By 2025, it's more like massive Metrolinx acquiring little TTC.

By 2025, ECLRT, Hurontario, and at least one other Metrolinx LRT, and some high-frequency GO RER lines, will have been operating for some time, possibly covering more total electricified rail than TTC subway/streetcars combined.

If they do a good job pulling off all the new LRTs, and good traffic signal priority systems, and they run twice as fast as TTC St. Clair (like many speedier LRTs already deployed elsewhere in the world), and calls of why "TTC streetcars" are much slower than "Metrolinx streetcars", it may actually be politically easy by then, and possibly a massively good idea from a transit network efficiency/integration perspective. But might not be a good idea from a low-fare perspective, unless the Metrolinx LRTs end up having excellent farebox recovery at TTC prices. Then again, politics can change a lot in just 10 years...
 
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Mr.Tang said:
Perhaps Metrolinx being the favorite child in terms of funding (if it persists) may make the TTC slightly more likely to consider the sensible act of merger on day.
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I think the city would gladly unload the subway system and it's massive annual upkeep costs in a heart beat if the province offered to take it.
 
crs1026 said:
Would we have been happier if TTC more aggressively held TYSSE contractors' feet to the fire? Some may have been over their heads from the start, and would have folded if the penalties were too severe.

- Paul
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The TTC did hold the various contractors feet too close to the fire - that's why several of them are suing The Commission. And why Bechtel has been called in to try and save the project.

There's rumours going around that several of the contractors involved are not interested in bidding in any more work so long at the TTC is the one in charge of the project.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
There's rumours going around that several of the contractors involved are not interested in bidding in any more work so long at the TTC is the one in charge of the project.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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Indeed, and this has already been the case for a while. PCL, for instance, doesn't usually bid on TTC work.
 
rbt said:
I think the city would gladly unload the subway system and it's massive annual upkeep costs in a heart beat if the province offered to take it.
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I would be glad to see metrolinx takes over the subways and run it as distance based..but there must be vast resistances from toronto low income residents, very hard to implement..
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
Could we just not open this can of worms on this thread?
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That has been the Metrolinx plans since 2007 to take all the systems over including TTC.

Subways have been the main area Metrolinx want to start with.
 
drum118 said:
That has been the Metrolinx plans since 2007 to take all the systems over including TTC.

Subways have been the main area Metrolinx want to start with.
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Eglinton Crosstown and the other LRT lines in Toronto will be owned by Metrolinx, and operated by the TTC. While there was initial thinking that contractor crews would operate Eglinton, the City and the Union started howling, and Metrolinx came out clear that TTC would operate. Given all that, I think its a huge leap to start speculating about Metrolinx/TTC mergers. Again, speculation I don't want to get into on this thread.

If we want to discuss something relevant, if you were to pursue a similar arrangement for HMLRT, who would operate it? Perhaps this may be a situation where Metrolinx or a contractor would be the operator, given it is crossing two municipal boundaries.
 
CDL.TO said:
Sorry, but that's a load of crap. There is absolutely no reason to believe that this is true.
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DonValleyRainbow said:
Could we just not open this can of worms on this thread?
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Let's point out that Metrolinx may be the one who ends up funding DRL and future subway extensions, so they may actually end up owning it even if TTC operates it. With funding of future subway extensions.

What if TTC eventually becomes the operations company, while Metrolinx takes over TTC infrastructure for easier expansions? Unions (semi-)happy, Metrolinx gets a bit more force in expansions and say in efficiencies.

If Metrolinx succeeds in pulling off several LRTs and GO RER electricification with fewer construction contractor delays, and TTC has had zero expansions (and cancelled Scarborough subway), the pressure is only going to increase if the rest of Toronto is enjoying the new Metrolinx infrastructure, seeing all their European style LRTs outperform even St. Clair with the new streetcars.

Metrolinx successfully pressured TTC into accepting a unified Presto system for fare integration, so that the same farecard that can be used between Metrolinx vehicles and TTC vehicles (by 2017). Think about this hypothetical scenario, given the apparent better track record of Metrolinx project starts/completions relative to TTC, since the formation of Metrolinx a few years ago.

With Presto, ECLRT, and Metrolinx-funded DRL (all run by TTC) is the start of possible slow long term Metrolinx-ization of TTC, will this stop? And now GO RER plops a large surface subway network forced onto all TTC map diagrams on all Subway boards and Subway stations, more than two-thirds of TTC maps may end up being Metrolinx infrastructure (LRTs, GO RER, DRL). By 2035, what will TTC's subway map look like? Will TTC avoid putting ECLRT and local sections of GO RER routes on the map? And the Metrolinx infrastructure may outperform TTC infrastructure (e.g. ECLRT and Hurontario superior to TTC streetcars, and the GO RER expansions and infill stations being built more frequently, on top of Metrolinx-funded TTC-operated DRL tunnel, etc.).

If the trend continues, it's no longer pie in the sky that TTC becomes a de-facto Metrolinx contractor or subsidiary on an increasingly larger and larger part of Toronto's transit network. It would enable stronger physical integration (we probably need to add at least one to two dozen efficient short-walk indoor station interchanges between local Metrolinx infrastructure and local TTC infrastructure within twenty or fifty years).

Because of the above, it could be a 25% chance of happening by year 2050 under extremely intense voter pressure, if the public is seeing that Metrolinx has been doing a better job of new transit projects for many decades. Of course, it could go in a different direction, so Andy Byford has a good challenge to keep up with Metrolinx. They may both still co-exist, but the regional versus interregional is getting blurred already thanks to ECLRT.

Take your eyePhone out -> Calendar icon -> "New Reminder" -> text "Reopen can of worms" -> set reminder date to "July 1st, 2025" ;)
 
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CDL.TO said:
Sorry, but that's a load of crap. There is absolutely no reason to believe that this is true.
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If you follow or were at the various meetings held under the now Metrolinx in 2007 and since then, you would have seen and heard various ideas floated what could, may and will happen over time with the creation of the Regional Transit Authority.

Evening talking to the various personnel who no longer work for Metrolinx, you still get the same results today.

Even before the Eglinton line was on the books, there was talked at Metrolinx taking control of the subway system some years ago, but back off as there was too much opposition to it nor was Metrolinx in a strong position to do so.

Metrolinx wants the London Model here where things are control by various parties (P3 & Cities) working under one name, uniform and management.
 
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