Toronto Four Seasons Hotel and Private Residences Toronto | 203.9m | 52s | Lifetime | a—A

Indeed, in certain locations in the city height should be no object.
 
Toronto has to grow up. 1/2 dozen people should not have an impact on a 500 million dollar development that brings money and people into this city Toronto is just to big to be worrying about 5 storeys here and there.
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the project got approval at community council. it's not being held up. so what's the problem? that it was taken to the public at all?

Our Toronto politicians keep on saying that Toronto is a world-class city but i guess they all have small town mentalitys when it comes to major developments.
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NIMBYs object to high rises all the time in the biggest cities. i've read virtually identical articles of people in manhattan opposing towers that would shadow schools or parks.
 
Its alarming to find out that the cash straped Board of Education is selling a lot of their school properties to develpers in this city a lot of these schools are beyond fixing and they would rather re-locate brand new ones in the same vicinity.Example Dufferin Mall area where Brock Stadium and a couple of Schools are being bought out for mid-rise and a housing develpment, my guess is that this school next to this Four Seasons development wont be there beyond the
Grand-Opening date of 2009.
 
developers should be forced to contribute more.
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Yes I agree, but 2 million dollars to move and build a new playground. I'm sure those schools without playgrounds that were ripped out a few years ago would appreciate some assistance. This does'nt make sense other than "here's 2 million dollars and shut up".

One other thing, our non-profit daycare (120 kids) installed a new playground for under $50,000. It's much better than those "no fun zones" they've installed recently at some schools.
 
my guess is that this school next to this Four Seasons development wont be there beyond the
Grand-Opening date of 2009.
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This school is on the other side of Bay Street and a couple blocks north of the Four Seasons site. No reason for it to move anywhere.
 
They do a sunless tan that's $150 for 90 minutes, with a reapplication that's $90 for 60 minutes. I would imagine group rates for small bodies would be much less
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I wonder how they manage to hold them still for that amount of time?

Skewers?
 
Manhattan NIMBYs are some of the most tenacious around, in fact.

And Brooklyn is a whole other league.

Good that this is being fast-tracked for approval. While I am all in favour of public comment and consultation, we're dealing with a corporation that has made huge contributions to the city over the years, and which is building an architecturally exceptional structure on a derelict site. With $2M for community groups. Can't wait to see it under construction.
 
Cement trucks, cranes and diggers attract 6-8 year old boys, like Pam Anderson attracts 20 year old ones.
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Actually, I'd argue that Pam Anderson more likely attracts 6-8 year old boys, sort of in a Kids Say The Darndest Things way (y'know, like little boys used to tell Art Linkletter they wanted Marilyn Monroe to be their mom, etc).

These days, by the time they're 20, an inkling t/w Pam Anderson is a more likely sign of MAC-cosmetic queerness. (In the best way, of course.)
 
I think it's a good thing the school was able to get $2 million out of them...developers should be forced to contribute more.
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FYI - New development is already the most heavily taxed commodity in Canada after alcohol and tabacco.

Four Seasons will be contributing a lot more cash in development charges and a variety of other taxes, not to mention all the construction jobs and taxes on the incomes from construction and then all the economic spin-offs once the tower is complete.

There are plenty of positive economic benifits to this project.

Although I hope there is a financial contribution from the developers towards the Bloor St. revitilization project. It would be nice to see that go forward sometime soon.
 
Yes I agree, but 2 million dollars to move and build a new playground. I'm sure those schools without playgrounds that were ripped out a few years ago would appreciate some assistance. This does'nt make sense other than "here's 2 million dollars and shut up".

One other thing, our non-profit daycare (120 kids) installed a new playground for under $50,000. It's much better than those "no fun zones" they've installed recently at some schools.
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Well, $2 million just for that is excessive...hopefully the money is used more wisely. But as far as contributions go, Im all for developers offering more perks to location institutions.
 
FYI - New development is already the most heavily taxed commodity in Canada after alcohol and tabacco.
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So? If I recall correctly Vancouver manages to get a lot more out of developers for the community than we do.

Four Seasons will be contributing a lot more cash in development charges and a variety of other taxes, not to mention all the construction jobs and taxes on the incomes from construction and then all the economic spin-offs once the tower is complete.

There are plenty of positive economic benifits to this project.
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Im not denying this project, or any condo project for that matter, doesn't provide a host of economic benefits. Developers sole concern is turning a profit...the benefits you listed are not due to goodwill on their part. Even with the extra contributions they've had to make (in the case of this project), they're still going to make a lot of money. I don't see why developers, in general, can't contribute more to the local communities they're building in.

Although I hope there is a financial contribution from the developers towards the Bloor St. revitilization project. It would be nice to see that go forward sometime soon.
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I agree.
 
"The Shadow" strikes fear into the innocent city dwellers.
Actually, every big city gets similar objections to massive projects. This project is a gem. Everybody is happy now. I suspect the shadow incident was just a way to extract a little cash out of the Four Seasons. The school is not very close to the site. The argument is ridiculous.
 
In fact, shadows should be welcomed as a way to cut down cases of melanoma in the city. 4 Seasons only had the best intentions when they decided to shield the children from the nasty sun.
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They can use the $2 million then to buy vasts amounts of Vitamin D.
 
"FYI - New development is already the most heavily taxed commodity in Canada after alcohol and tabacco."

Interesting point but are you sure? Gasoline? Small imported goods? People?
 
SD,

So? If I recall correctly Vancouver manages to get a lot more out of developers for the community than we do.
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Vancouver also has the most unaffordable housing in Canada. Granted Four Seasons is a luxury product, but for other projects do we really want to follow the Vancouver model where homes/condos downtown are nearly twice as expensive in Toronto. Sure the city could gain more in taxes, but the average person either wouldn't be able to afford to live here or their mortgages would be ridiculous. Should Toronto not alos have a goal to maintain an affordable stock of housing for its citizens?


Im not denying this project, or any condo project for that matter, doesn't provide a host of economic benefits. Developers sole concern is turning a profit...the benefits you listed are not due to goodwill on their part. Even with the extra contributions they've had to make (in the case of this project), they're still going to make a lot of money. I don't see why developers, in general, can't contribute more to the local communities they're building in.
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In the case of this super-luxury project I'm sure they can afford more contributions. But in the case of an average condo aimed at first time home buyers or the middle class all those taxes are passed onto the home buyers. That should be a consideration when setting taxes and fees etc. Also, when investing $500 million to build a 46 and 30 storey tower, why should the developer not be entitled to make a profit? Afterall there is considerable risk in the development industry. Many many developers went belly up in the early to mid 1990s.


TdotTrickyTicky,

Interesting point but are you sure? Gasoline? Small imported goods? People?
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Good points, I am fairly certain about the tax situation with new development. Correct me if I'm wrong bu Gas is subject to both fed and prov gas taxes + GST, what percentage out of the final cost is that? (I don't own a car, but most gas stations do have some sort of pie chart breaking down the cost posted). Developers are subject to numerous taxes, fees and charges at all three levels of government plus a number of government agencies as well as a ton of regulations.

While the city should be entitled to benefits from development it is important not to swing the pendulum too far soas to either choke development or make it much more difficult for the average citizen to attain home ownership.
 
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