sixrings
Senior Member
Im just suggesting that if it costs 300 million for the station that money is better spent heading one stop east to Warden or west towards bathurst.
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leopetr
Active Member
I don't know the exact numbers, but I'd be surprised if a Consumers Park stop turns out to be any more than $100m. The big money would go to Victoria Park, as that's where they'd need a major bus terminal.
sixrings
Senior Member
if thats true why not add in willowdale station for 100-150 million... the nimbyism argument has to have been muted relatively since all the development in the past 10 years.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Grammar policing. Really? That's what you're reduced to?
You know exactly what I mean. You (and several others who share your doctrinaire mindset) complain at every single hint of compromise. Heaven forbid, we get a reasonable compromise solution that doesn't apply a one-size-fits-none solution to the entire 416. The purpose of Sheppard has always been about that just the 5000 pphpd that's there today. It's part of a long term network build that will offer a reasonable alternative to the Bloor-Danforth in getting across town. Those of us who support it, understand the long term vision behind this. The completion of Sheppard (whenever that is), will enable transit to actually compete with the car for the whole 416. No Scarborough resident will ever have to drive York U or Yorkdale mall. Transit could actually be nearly as fast, or even faster, depending on traffic. Two stops today. But in time, when they finish it, the impact on the city will be huge.
It was 400 million for the LRT tunnel if I am not mistaken. And that had no underground stations. Toss in 2 underground subways stations at about $100 million each as a minimum (and likely more for a terminus at VP). Add in the cost of tail tracks, property acquisition, etc. I don't think billion is way out there (though still a tad high on my count....I figured in the $700-$800 million range). That said, if they bridge this gap, further expansion becomes a whole lot easier. And I strongly suspect that's what those who oppose the idea don't like about it. Heck, the city itself could build a stop a year if it was willing to raise the taxes to do it.
nfitz
Superstar
Did it look like my response was reduced to that? Really? Simply apologize and move on ...
You think Sheppard is a reasonable alternative to Bloor-Danforth? Why? Both Sheppard and Eglinton would leave Scarborough Centre ... but Eglinton will attract most of the riders.
And I don't know why you think such a compromised plan is a good thing. It's a simple thing to look at. If you've got a $billiion to throw at transit on Sheppard, which is of greater benefit. A 2-km extension to Victoria Park, or 12-km of LRT to Meadowvale.
Further expansion? The numbers aren't high enough to support subway in the first place. Ridership east of Victoria Park is even lower. Why do you support flushing money down the toilet like this, when it could be of more benefit to more people elsewhere? Let's stop building these gravy trains.
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kEiThZ
Superstar
Apologize for a grammatical error. You really are full of yourself aren't you?
Never suggested otherwise.
I prioritize a long term vision over short term quick fixes. I'd rather see this city commit to building a proper network in 50 years than spend billions on a quick fix LRT network that has saves mere minutes over the existing bus network. So in my opinion that 2km extension is a better idea than 12km of LRT to Meadowvale (which incidentally is not where they could afford to get to).
1) Nobody said expansion was going to happen tomorrow. I happen to think a little longer term than you or most of our elected elites.
2) Greater benefit elsewhere? They are spending the same amount as previously proposed on the exact same corridor. So why the hurt feelings? The only difference now is that the closer you live to Vic Park the more you'll benefit. Incidentally, the vast majority of residents along the corridor live closer to Vic Park than Morningside. And once you toss in the Finch East busway to Markham/Neilson/Morningside, the loss of the SELRT becomes even less relevant, since those previously diverted riders will now be catching a speedy bus right to VP.
3) I kinda like gravy. It makes dry turkey taste a lot better.
Mulder
Active Member
Says a guy from Oakville/Milton?
As I alluded to before, 20,000 people already work in the consumers road block.
Census roughly tells me that the area around this proposed expansion houses 100,000 people, although this is a large area, (as far east a Kennedy, North to Finch) you can still get a general idea. As well the data I looked at is from 2006 on the City of Toronto website. That area has grown so much since 2006. For anyone who has been in that area knows this.
A stop there would best serve most if not all of Consumers block. The bus going down Consumers Road could be removed. It would be a 10 minute walk at most to any subway station.
I wouldn't be all "that's too much" yet. Since this idea was just thought up. Throwing a big number as a cost estimate without actually getting into more detailed funding. The government may want to fund the Extension to Warden as well
nfitz
Superstar
Wonderful .... people more interested in something that might not pay off for 50 years, than they are in something that would help a lot of people today.
There'd be very few trips along that corridor that gain more benefit from a subway extension, than an LRT to Meadowvale ... except perhaps those that are walking distance to one of the 2 new stations. And even then it's marginal, given that's there's only 1 traffic light between Victoria Park LRT station and Don Mills station, and the LRT runs more frequently, and will be quicker to walk to on the surface, than 2-stories underground.
There'd be very few trips along that corridor that gain more benefit from a subway extension, than an LRT to Meadowvale ... except perhaps those that are walking distance to one of the 2 new stations. And even then it's marginal, given that's there's only 1 traffic light between Victoria Park LRT station and Don Mills station, and the LRT runs more frequently, and will be quicker to walk to on the surface, than 2-stories underground.
Mulder
Active Member
Last time I drove from Vic Park to Don Mills Subway station, there was was 5 lights? Unless you are talking about the proposed LRT? I knew it was going under the 404 but can't remember where it was coming up.
nfitz
Superstar
See further up this thread. The portal is just west of Consumers Road. From Victoria Park to Don Mills station, the only light I was thinking of was at Consumers Road. Though looking carefully, I have forgotten the lights at Settlers Road - I'd hope a proper detailed design might find a way to eliminate this light, as the road doesn't really go anywhere except parking lots that could be instead serviced from Consumers Road.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
It's a good plan but if you're going to extend the line it should at least go to Aginourt or not bother and use the money for something else. A DRL study perhaps.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
For the fifth time, from the EA showing a 2-car configuration:
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nfitz
Superstar
The area to the right is the service area. The area for future expansion is the "Reserved" area to the left. That looks to be about 30 metres to me, if the yellow area is 60 metres. That allows for a 3-car train.
My understanding is that the areas marked Services are not designed for, or available for, future expansion beyond a 90-metre platform. If there's any evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it.
caltrane74
Senior Member
Those areas marked "Services" appear to be for ingress and egress.
Re: Sheppard Extension (sorry for playing catch-up, I was out all day, and apparently I missed a lot, haha).
If the latest total for the SELRT was $1.2 billion, then you can do $1 billion for the subway extension, $200 million for BRT improvements along Sheppard. Given the whopping 3,500 pphpd in 2031 that Sheppard east of Vic Park is supposed to have, no doubt that BRT would be sufficient for the foreseeable future.
Same cost, all you're doing is moving the transfer point further east, and in the process opening up more networking options. The time saved by building LRT east of Vic Park vs BRT upgrades east of Vic Park would be minimal.
With doing BRT east of Vic Park, there's also the option of 'wait and see'. It can either be upgraded to subway in the future if demand somehow gets there (not likely for a long time, but hey). Or if LRT is suddenly viable (and no, 3,500 pphpd isn't very viable for LRT), then go for that. Either way, with BRT you aren't stuck with one option or the other. The decision on what to go with can be made at a later time, because an effective transit solution will already be in place.
If the latest total for the SELRT was $1.2 billion, then you can do $1 billion for the subway extension, $200 million for BRT improvements along Sheppard. Given the whopping 3,500 pphpd in 2031 that Sheppard east of Vic Park is supposed to have, no doubt that BRT would be sufficient for the foreseeable future.
Same cost, all you're doing is moving the transfer point further east, and in the process opening up more networking options. The time saved by building LRT east of Vic Park vs BRT upgrades east of Vic Park would be minimal.
With doing BRT east of Vic Park, there's also the option of 'wait and see'. It can either be upgraded to subway in the future if demand somehow gets there (not likely for a long time, but hey). Or if LRT is suddenly viable (and no, 3,500 pphpd isn't very viable for LRT), then go for that. Either way, with BRT you aren't stuck with one option or the other. The decision on what to go with can be made at a later time, because an effective transit solution will already be in place.