Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[superman]

Stintz's plan seems like a good comprimise.

However, Eglinton East at-grade needs to have wider stop spacing and be "grade-separated" in the sense that it gets signal priority, use crossing gates, maybe duck under minor intersections in order to be rapid transit (the TC plan had it going at 60% of the speed of the fully grade separated version). This would also help keep the SRT and the Eglinton line interlined as it wouldn't cause bottle necks in some sections.

Sheppard East extension seems like a good plan as that was what was planned a decade ago anyway.

Finch busway also makes sense as its ridership never met the capacity of a LRT (similar to Eglinton not meeting the capacity for a subway). Also, depending on how they build the BRT (see Ottawa or Mississauga, i.e. not stoping at red lights), it could end up faster than the LRT anyway, and the busway will be twice as long as the original LRT anyway so that's a big win.

Overall, a good plan. I hope the build Eglinton east properly so it represents more like the C-train or the Gold Line in LA and less of the other TTC LRT implementations or the original TC plan.

My idea would be to stop the Finch busway at Yonge and elevate Eglinton East and Sheppard East... it costs somewhere between at grade LRT and Subway, and they'd probably be able to get alot built.

 

[Solid Snake]

Sheppard should have gone west

 

[sixrings]

Stintz's plan seems like a good comprimise.

However, Eglinton East at-grade needs to have wider stop spacing and be "grade-separated" in the sense that it gets signal priority, use crossing gates, maybe duck under minor intersections in order to be rapid transit (the TC plan had it going at 60% of the speed of the fully grade separated version). This would also help keep the SRT and the Eglinton line interlined as it wouldn't cause bottle necks in some sections.

Sheppard East extension seems like a good plan as that was what was planned a decade ago anyway.

Finch busway also makes sense as its ridership never met the capacity of a LRT (similar to Eglinton not meeting the capacity for a subway). Also, depending on how they build the BRT (see Ottawa or Mississauga, i.e. not stoping at red lights), it could end up faster than the LRT anyway, and the busway will be twice as long as the original LRT anyway so that's a big win.

Overall, a good plan. I hope the build Eglinton east properly so it represents more like the C-train or the Gold Line in LA and less of the other TTC LRT implementations or the original TC plan.

My idea would be to stop the Finch busway at Yonge and elevate Eglinton East and Sheppard East... it costs somewhere between at grade LRT and Subway, and they'd probably be able to get alot built.

I agree that stop spacing should be only at major intersections for Eglinton especially if its to interline with SRT which seems like a good idea.

I do like that FINCH at least is a FULL line vs a STUB... Maybe I can warm to the idea of every major road north of Eglinton Having its own bus lanes. That is better then mixed traffic and does open the possibility of future LRT.

Just a question? if Sheppard Subway costs 600 million to convert to LRT how much would it cost additional to get it to victoria park?

 

[sixrings]

Sheppard should have gone west

FOr a network I agree. If VCC actually booms to what they are suggesting there may be a significant number of people from the east who might work in this future hub. Besides that Downsview park is going to see significant densification and its always good to have a second option to the yonge line.

 

[nfitz]

I used to work in that block and commuted from High Park via all 3 subway lines and a bus, I ended up calculating that I wasted anywhere between 40 minutes to an hour a day waiting for that bus to take me from Fairview Mall to work and back a day.

I used to work in that block before they built the Sheppard subway. I simple got off the Don Mills bus at Sheppard and walked, unless I saw a bus coming - coming home I almost always walked, as it was faster than crossing the road and waiting at the stop. I never spent 40 minutes a day, even when I was walking both directions.

 

[leopetr]

But it's a travesty to build LRT in the suburbs that makes as many stops as a bus. WTF is the point? Just run the bus, it's way cheaper!

That would require a transfer between bus and LRT, versus staying on the same vehicle.

 

[rbt]

This is a pretty narrow minded point of view.

The Consumers Road block businesses employ over 20,000 people. That's not including the new residential that's being build or anybody to the north of Sheppard of east of Vic Park. It's probably be the best value and usage for a minor extension in the city.

This is true but a good chunk of that, and the new condos on Sheppard, are pretty far from Vic Park.

Heron's Hill condos, offices on Yorkland Blvd and offices in the South East portion of Consumers road will not be well served by a Vic Park station. A large number of the actual destinations are well over 1km from Vic Park by foot in Winter/Spring (shortcuts are easier in Summer/Fall).

Hopefully they spend the extra $80M and put a stop at YorkLand or Consumers road as well (roughly 700m from Vic Park and 1.3km from Don Mills).

 

[rbt]

That's presuming that the one is only extending the subway -- a billion dollars would by a lot more BRT and/or LRT. This extension is a huge amount of money to serve relatively few people, compared to alternatives.

Not really. A large chunk of cash was going to be required to get either a BRT or LRT over/under highway 404. SELRT had nearly half of its total cost being invested between Consumers Road and Don Mills station ($400M, which would be higher now due to delays).

Once you get past Consumers road there are savings to be had using a different mode; but getting to Consumers Road is going to be expensive regardless of mode.

If it's going to be subway to Consumers, Vic Park is a reasonable place for a small end of the line bus terminal. I don't see a business case for going past Vic Park (completing a line on a map is not a business case) but I do buy into a 2 stop subway extension to Vic Park.

 

[sixrings]

This is true but a good chunk of that, and the new condos on Sheppard, are pretty far from Vic Park.

Heron's Hill condos, offices on Yorkland Blvd and offices in the South East portion of Consumers road will not be well served by a Vic Park station. A large number of the actual destinations are well over 1km from Vic Park by foot in Winter/Spring (shortcuts are easier in Summer/Fall).

Hopefully they spend the extra $80M and put a stop at YorkLand or Consumers road as well (roughly 700m from Vic Park and 1.3km from Don Mills).

I think they are building a community housing building on the north east side of vic park and sheppard. a 8 story building. I remember on a thread in here arguing that it was way to short. not that i think a 30-40 floor community housing building is a good idea but rather a 8 story building being built so close to a potential subway stop. People argued though that in relation to the buildings around 8 floors was approproate. How appropriate is it if this extension happens tho. I think it completely changes everything. That whole plaza needs to be ripped down and intensified with condos and potentially office buildings. I will say I would have accepted a 8 floor office building. Maybe more appropriate would have been a 8 floor office with condos on top. Anyways back to my big question.....

If it costs 600 million to convert the sheppard subway to LRT how much more would it have cost to get to Victoria park? would it cost 1 billion or less?????

 

[nfitz]

SELRT had nearly half of its total cost being invested between Vic Park and Don Mills station ($400M, which would be higher now due to delays).

It was between Don Mills Station and west of Consumers Drive. Both the Consumers Drive and Victoria Park stations were above-ground, centre-of-the-road LRT stations. Building them as underground subway stations adds hugely to the cost. The portal was going to be east of Boneset Road and west of Consumers Drive. From the east end of the Don Mills platform, this would have required about 950 m of tunnel. With the amount of tunnel almost doubling, and the addition of two underground stations, it's not surprising that the price more than doubles.

If we are going to build Eglinton East as surface LRT do be more cost-efficient, it seems a complete waste of money to be changing tracks, and moving the previously approved Eglinton East LRT from where it is, to below ground.

For the $1-billion amount being discussed, instead of building 2 subway stations, we could instead built the Sheppard East LRT from Don Mills to Markham Road. Add another $150 million and it would go all the way to Morningside.

 

[W. K. Lis]

If they tunnel the whole thing then they can make Eglinton a 4 car train and carry as many as a subway and then not complain about less capacity for higher costs.

A Eglinton station box will be built to fit a 5-car LRV train. The initial configuration of the stations will be for 3-car trains, but can be expanded to 4 or 5 as needed.

 

[nfitz]

A Eglinton station box will be built to fit a 5-car LRV train. The initial configuration of the stations will be for 3-car trains, but can be expanded to 4 or 5 as needed.

Are you 100% sure? I thought the box was only for a 3-car LRV train. That's what the station box design seems to show on the Crosstown website. Though that's a 90-metre train - the 4-car Sheppard trains are only 92-metres. A 5-car LRV train would be 150 metres - that's longer than a 6-car subway train (138 metres).

 

[Mulder]

This is true but a good chunk of that, and the new condos on Sheppard, are pretty far from Vic Park.

Heron's Hill condos, offices on Yorkland Blvd and offices in the South East portion of Consumers road will not be well served by a Vic Park station. A large number of the actual destinations are well over 1km from Vic Park by foot in Winter/Spring (shortcuts are easier in Summer/Fall).

Hopefully they spend the extra $80M and put a stop at YorkLand or Consumers road as well (roughly 700m from Vic Park and 1.3km from Don Mills).

I thought that's what the plan states. Subway exit at Consumers Road? As per

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...nton-lrt-back-to-street-level/article2313981/

Eglinton Crosstown line run at street level as first planned with the money that saves used to extend the Sheppard subway two stops to Victoria Park

 

[rbt]

I thought that's what the plan states. Subway exit at Consumers Road? As per

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...nton-lrt-back-to-street-level/article2313981/

Great. I only read the Toronto Star version which didn't have that much detail.

 

[JoeParez]

It's by no means the best plan, but it's a start and at least councillors are listening and trying to provide the best bang for the buck. If the Finch BRT mirrors VIVA's BRT on Highway 7 with easy conversion to LRT then that should be taken as a sign of progress as it kinds of irks me that councillor Augmeri is going with this "go big or go home" mentality (saying LRT or nothing) - BRT would be an improvement on the current service on Finch.

I know I'm stating the obvious, but I do hope this happens.