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SmartTrack (Proposed)

WislaHD said:
This is based on GO-RER+ figures studied by Metrolinx. They show that GO-RER+ will only take away 400 people from Bloor-Yonge station at peak period.

That option studied by Metrolinx is essentially what SmartTrack has evolved to. Under GO-RER+ the combined frequency of different branches of GO-RER will provide close to 7 minute frequencies in downtown. SmartTrack as described in the Moore article might have 2 more trains per peak hour (if that is even possible) to reach 5 minute frequencies, that seems to be the only difference. (And I doubt would be too impactful on ridership numbers)
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The options and numbers being referred to here, for those who are just joining us:

kRssGQv.png


J2KpLIa.png
 
ShonTron said:
Nope. The Scarborough SRT replacement and extension was intended to be an independent project. At one point, Ford proposed grade-separating the entire line; if that was the case, the Scarborough LRT and Eglinton LRTs could be interlined. But it never made into any EA or serious study.

The Scarborough Subway exists as the go-forward plan thanks to Ford, Stintz, De Baeremaeker, and now Tory.
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  • People were opposed to the on-street LRT streetcars and that was one of the main reasons Ford was elected.
  • Ford and the Province proposed grade-separating the entire Eglinton line and connecting it to the SRT. There were no complaints except for cost.
  • The interlined Eglinton Scarborough DID make it into serious study and it was found to be the best in a business case.
  • Interlined Eglinton-Scarborough was killed for political reasons.
  • When they reverted to on-street Transit City, Stintz, De Baeremaeker and the Provincial Liberals knew how unpopular it was, so they proposed the Scarborough Subway.
  • So for the money we are now spending on the Scarborough subway, we could have easily had the Eglinton-Scarborough interlined all the way to Malvern.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...itscases/Benefits_Case-Eglinton_Crosstown.pdf
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
The options and numbers being referred to here, for those who are just joining us:
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The subsequent YRNS technical report was a bit more in depth, and gave us a new line to consider ("Surface Subway"). This technical report was seemingly hidden from public view over the summer until Steve Munro got access to it in the fall and posted it.
YRNS-options-demand.jpg
 

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Kennedy to Bloor-Yonge Station is a 24 minute ride + 1 min 15 second average wait time.

Go RER will be about 20 minutes + 5 minute average wait time. So if travelling anywhere on Yonge or University between Queen and Bloor, RER should offer no time savings.

For trips south of Queen, RER should theoretically offer time savings of a few minutes. But I don't believe that will result in a significant redirection of people away from B-Y Station.
1. There is significant risk of being extending your trip time when making transfers to relatively infrequent services like RER. Headways for RER at Kennedy are 10 minutes. That means that commuters risk delaying their commute by up to 5 minutes if they just miss the train. I expect that people will play it safe and stay on Line 2 to get downtown.
2. People are lazy. Shaving 3 minutes off of trip times likely won't be a large enough motivation for people to get off the train and transfer, especially if that transfer involves waiting on a cold train platform for potentially up to 10 min.
3. Walking from Union GO platforms to Union TTC takes myself 3 minutes, and this is with no crowding at Union and I'm a very fast walker. When we include the time to get off the train and the time waiting for the TTC train, and station crowding, this will take the typical person more than 5 minutes. That will erase time savings RER offers for everyone but people who work in the immediate vicinity of Union Station.
 
44 North said:
The subsequent YRNS technical report was a bit more in depth, and gave us a new line to consider ("Surface Subway"). This technical report was seemingly hidden from public view over the summer until Steve Munro got access to it in the fall and posted it.
View attachment 64194
Click to expand...
Surface Subway option moves the transfer point further west, which is why the line seems to relieve more people than the traditional Short or Long options. (People from Chester/Broadview station are more likely to opt to transfer than continue to Bloor-Yonge)

Surface Subway actually is outscored at most other indicators by the Long option, even though it might be slightly cheaper. I think this is why it was left out of the final reports.
 
DonValleyRainbow, good graphics! (Those are Metrolinx's, right?)

P.S. I only finally got your old PM recently. I've replied to it, but you can reach me by email/twitter as well (faster than this PM system).
 
I don't believe some of you guys.

You keep talking about the traditional DRL like it's a better option than the ST subway. Let's say, for the sake of argument that is true............so what! Toronto is NOT going to get any money from the feds for the DRL. Toronto doesn't even know the streets it will travel on to say nothing of the endless community consultations and environmental reviews.

This infrastructure program has 2 priorities.............green infrastructure as a long term investment and the creation of short term jobs and a boost to the economy. You guys keep talking like the options for downtown are a Relief subway or the ST subway..............wrong. The option is between a ST subway and doing nothing. The feds are not going to give a DRL one penny so stop the dreams of grandeur.

ST can begin construction immediately. There is no reason for community consultations or environmental reviews as this is along a current operating rail corridor. Some may not be able to start immediately but who cares as a lot of it can. Electrification Egl/MD, Kennedy, Corktown, Liberty Village stations, and a maintenance facility to name just a few. Put them out to tender and construction could start in 4 months.

Whether you agree with ST or not as a the route of a downtown subway you better understand the doing nothing is the only other option so get this DRL out of your head. Trudeau will, nor should he, fund a cent of the DRL.
 
mdrejhon said:
DonValleyRainbow, good graphics! (Those are Metrolinx's, right?)
Click to expand...
Correct.

ssiguy2 said:
You keep talking about the traditional DRL like it's a better option than the ST subway. Let's say, for the sake of argument that is true............so what! Toronto is NOT going to get any money from the feds for the DRL. Toronto doesn't even know the streets it will travel on to say nothing of the endless community consultations and environmental reviews.

This infrastructure program has 2 priorities.............green infrastructure as a long term investment and the creation of short term jobs and a boost to the economy. You guys keep talking like the options for downtown are a Relief subway or the ST subway..............wrong. The option is between a ST subway and doing nothing. The feds are not going to give a DRL one penny so stop the dreams of grandeur.

ST can begin construction immediately. There is no reason for community consultations or environmental reviews as this is along a current operating rail corridor. Some may not be able to start immediately but who cares as a lot of it can. Electrification Egl/MD, Kennedy, Corktown, Liberty Village stations, and a maintenance facility to name just a few. Put them out to tender and construction could start in 4 months.

Whether you agree with ST or not as a the route of a downtown subway you better understand the doing nothing is the only other option so get this DRL out of your head. Trudeau will, nor should he, fund a cent of the DRL.
Click to expand...

Who says it is not going to get federal funding? Maybe it is not eligible for the current round of 'shovel-ready' infrastructure projects, but that does not forbid Toronto from getting federal dollars for it.

I'm also perplexed at your insistence that ST is so ready to go. Please tell me: what does it look like? Is it in fact a subway? Is it just an augmentation of GO RER? Where are the new stops? Does it have a completed EA? Who says it does not need an EA? Are you an expert on the Environmental Assessment Act and its regulations? How is detailed design progressing? Will it be complete in 4 months?

If there's anything that's close to shovel ready, it's the extension of the Crosstown west from Mt Dennis. But that's assuming they don't pursue additional grade separation; that would require revisions to the EA.
 
ssiguy2 said:
ST can begin construction immediately.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha ha ha!

There have been no EAs. No engineering studies. No decisions on even the type of rolling stock.

There is no reason for community consultations or environmental reviews as this is along a current operating rail corridor.
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Uh, Davenport Diamond? Why are there community consultations and reviews? This is along a currently operating rail corridor, after all.

Whether you agree with ST or not as a the route of a downtown subway you better understand the doing nothing is the only other option so get this DRL out of your head. Trudeau will, nor should he, fund a cent of the DRL.
Click to expand...

Is that you, Alvin Curling?
 
ssiguy2 said:
ST can begin construction immediately.
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Say upgrades are needed to the rail corridor. Do we send the construction workers out there without any blueprints and tell them to wing it? Nonsense.

The fact of the matter is that we don't even know what ST specific infrastructure is needed. Relief Line is certainly much further along in planning in that regard.

Furthermore, City Planning is working on three major public transportation initiatives: ST, SSE and RL. They've dedicated far more resources to the Relief Line than any other thing they're working on. ST clearly isn't their priority.
 
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