SmartTrack (Proposed)

[ssiguy2]

They can use subway cars along the route if they just put up barriers between the tracks that use subway cars and the standard GO/RER tracks. Basically it just needs a median to separate the 2 just like the ones on the freeways. Urban transit CAN use rail corridors in Canada as long as there is a physical division between the 2 such as a median. It's the physical separation that is needed not a different rail corridor.

 

[ssiguy2]

This new plan is an excellent one and unlike the standard DRL, this one can actually get built.

Trudeau will NEVER gives a dime of federal money for the DRL. There are huge infrastructure funds about to be released and they will be on a first-come first-serve basis. Toronto should drop all talk of it's stupid tunnelled DRL plan and put all resources towards the ST subway. It can start construction immediately and that is the only way it will get any money from the feds. These new funds aren't just for long term investment but also short term economic boosts and waiting 10 years for routing, community consultations, and environmental reviews doesn't cut the mustard.

This is the right plan at the right time and Toronto should put all it's financial, political, planning, and intellectual capitol into this project and within 5 years Toronto could see a new LRT to Pearson and a downtown subway.

Trudeau will not wait for Toronto to get it's act in gear and if this doesn't get built then Toronto can forget blaming the feds or Queen's Park and have only itself to blame.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Toronto should drop all talk of it's stupid tunnelled DRL plan and put all resources towards the ST subway. It can start construction immediately and that is the only way it will get any money from the feds.

What you say about ST is complete conjecture. We don't know what ST will entail, so we can't say when it can begin construction. What we do know is that the Relief Line and Scarborough Subway should be construction ready by 2019.

There are many factors that could delay components of the ST plan, deepening on its scope:
1. City planning is looking at redesigning the ECLRT west extension. Any significant modifications will require new design work. This component likely won't start before Scarborough Subway or Relief Line.
2. Locations for additional GO RER stations haven't even been selected yet. These will all need to be designed from scratch.
3. Any modifications to Union Station will require a ton of design work.
4. Upgrades to Main Street station, again, will require new design work
5. Modifications might need to be made to facilitate 10 minute frequencies at Kennedy and Mt. Dennis Station. EA, design stage, expropriation will all take time.
6. You seem to want ST to have its own fleet of cars. That might require a new maintenance/storage facility.

Cash flow might delay construction as well, as we've seen with Eglinton, Finch, Sheppard LRTs.

 

[BurlOak]

Toronto should drop all talk of it's stupid tunnelled DRL plan and put all resources towards the ST subway. It can start construction immediately and that is the only way it will get any money from the feds.

When Toronto said no to the grade-separated Eglinton line it had two results.
1) It forced the Scarborough Subway onto the table.
2) It took away a major feeder for a DRL to Eglinton. That decision said no to DRL.

 

[nfitz]

When Toronto said no to the grade-separated Eglinton line it had two results.
1) It forced the Scarborough Subway onto the table.
2) It took away a major feeder for a DRL to Eglinton. That decision said no to DRL.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Your pulling this out of your imagination.

 

[BurlOak]

Every action has a reaction.
1) force a transfer = another solution without transfer.
2) don't have a high capacity line on Eglinton = people do not see the benefit of new subway up to Eglinton - and then dream up "subway" between Markham and YYZ.

These were not seen by some people 4 years ago, but now in hindsight it is very clear that we (Council, Provincial Government) are the architects of our current problems.

 

[rbt]

We don't know what ST will entail, so we can't say when it can begin construction. What we do know is that the Relief Line and Scarborough Subway should be construction ready by 2019.

This is unfortunate. I don't think Premier Brown (minority government) will have any interest at all in the Relief Line even if the Liberals leave behind a balanced budget. I'm less certain about Scarborough Subway but I think even that might be delayed by an election.

A significantly reduced transit capital package will almost certainly go straight to GO transit. By the time we come out of that, TTC will be $4B in the hole for SOGR work (Danforth vehicles, signals, etc.).

Wynne has an uphill battle at the moment.

 

[sixrings]

This is why I am an advocate for extending finch lrt to yonge or eglinton to the airport. They can be built much quicker then a DRL for instance and much cheaper where as we dont even know a DRL route, a bloor extension to STC route or what ST is. It may not be perfect and I too agree the DRL is most important but I am very skeptical it is in the near future (next 5 years) versus Eglinton which could theoretically start next year.

 

[bobbob911]

It is really getting annoying that the last two elections, the public voted against Transit City, yet somehow we wind up with Transit City.

Its not enough to vote against Transit City - you need to also vote for the ability to fund the alternative.....

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The public didn't vote for or against TC (or Smarttrack, or whatever) - they voted for or against a mayor for their general rhetoric/posture (calling it "policy" would be a stretch).

AoD

 

[bobbob911]

They certainly did not vote for the ability or desire to fund subways though....

 

[ShonTron]

When Toronto said no to the grade-separated Eglinton line it had two results.
1) It forced the Scarborough Subway onto the table.
2) It took away a major feeder for a DRL to Eglinton. That decision said no to DRL.

Nope. The Scarborough SRT replacement and extension was intended to be an independent project. At one point, Ford proposed grade-separating the entire line; if that was the case, the Scarborough LRT and Eglinton LRTs could be interlined. But it never made into any EA or serious study.

The Scarborough Subway exists as the go-forward plan thanks to Ford, Stintz, De Baeremaeker, and now Tory.

 

[the lemur]

Tory's political ambitions are certainly in the picture here, but at least they are compatible with the public interests.

As long as that thing runs and takes the passengers where they want to go, the choice of branding isn't very important.

Tory wants to be associated with the solution that ultimately gets applied and appears to work. If that means transferring the Smart Track name to something not entirely identical to his proposal, he'll do it.

 

[the lemur]

They can use subway cars along the route if they just put up barriers between the tracks that use subway cars and the standard GO/RER tracks. Basically it just needs a median to separate the 2 just like the ones on the freeways. Urban transit CAN use rail corridors in Canada as long as there is a physical division between the 2 such as a median. It's the physical separation that is needed not a different rail corridor.

Are you talking about adding a new set of tracks? I thought Tory's idea was based on using existing tracks (which would not fit our existing subway cars as it is, because of track gauge).

 

[crs1026]

Critical path anyone? Here's a bucket list of work packages that would be needed to implement the new vanilla ST from Kennedy to Mount Dennis

- Complete the EA under way for Electrification, adding any areas or aspects not already in scope
- Consultation and potential EA for station placements
- Design and Construct 4th track on Weston Sub (assuming prior EA is sufficient)
- Determine if current USRC track and signalling is electrification - friendly
- Design and construction for any track and signalling changes needed within USRC plus platforms at Union Station
- EA and consultation for 4th track Cherry Street - Scarboro Jct
- EA and consultation for double track and grade separation Scarboro Jct - Kennedy
- EA and design for flyover at Scarboro Jct
- Detailed design and construction for 4th track Cherry St - Scarboro Jct
- Detailed design and construction for dual track Scarboro Jct - Kennedy
- Rolling stock selection and procurement and testing
- EA, design and construction for EMU maintenance facility
- Final Design and construction of electrification throughout
- Station consultation, design, and construction

This is no small list. Figuring out fare integration, and determining which costs are incremental to RER versus what's already funded via RER, will be a parallel headache.

EDIT: While some of these items may already be on RER's to-do list, my impression of how ML does things is to not announce 'projects' and to take 'as long as it takes' to get things done. ST may require much harder deadlines which will be publicly committed similar to TYSSE and Crosstown. There may actually be a cost increment for this alone.

- Paul