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SmartTrack (Proposed)

The Globe article said that "the latest estimate is that the proposed integration of SmartTrack would add $2-billion to $3.5-billion to the existing GO plans". Who do you think is gonna pay for that?

At least partly, the city. And that is fair, since the "SmartTrack" features of GO RER and entirely for the benefit of the city and not the suburbs.

When I wrote "100% funded", that applies to the original GO-RER provincial commitment that had been funded before SmartTrack even appeared.
 
Toronto has 2 major problems with rapid transit both of which are Toronto's fault.

First, Torontonians and City Hall have this bizarre notion that something is not a subway unless it goes underground.
Second, Toronto wants LRT but builds it as streetcars. They are ROW and POP which is great but the reality is that they are still a long way from being rapid transit. Improved transit certainly but not rapid.

Thankfully Tory refuses to use these stupid ideas when proposing rapid transit. He knows that at grade/elevated subways are the norm thru the world not the exception particularly in newer systems and suburban ones. The ST from Mount Dennis to Kennedy is a full subway by absolutely any definition.

RER would not be near as effective or well used by Torontonians because it will have an extra fare and ST will be part of the TTC.
 
I find your incessant and blatant targeting of nearly all of your messages to John Tory disturbing. You're a one track mind on attacking him at every opportunity. Did John Tory run over your dog or something? Not to say I'm defending him or SmartTrack.

In hindsight I realize that I have posted more than my fair share of opinions about the mayor, and that at times I've been more harsh than necessary. I deeply care about this city, and after having lived through the Ford years I have lost all tolerance for bullshit.


Don't we WANT our politicians to compromise? Don't we WANT them to back away from campaign rhetoric? Rhetoric, I should say, that all parties of all stripes resort to during election campaigns. Don't we WANT them to solicit expert advise, listen to that advice, and then change their plans accordingly? Isn't that exactly what we are seeing now? (Again, the caveat is that Tory hasn't publicly vocalize support this compromise but all indications are that he will.)

Yes, I WANT him to do all of that, as he once promised. And then he went and did the exact opposite by pushing his Gardiner hybrid despite strong opposition by city staff. For some reason he fought against a staff-recommended homeowner loan program that would replace lead pipes at no cost to the city. The land transfer tax is the only reason the city's finances hasn't collapsed by now, but the mayor still insists on keeping taxes low despite all the warnings by the city manager. He said a lot of crap about the DRL even when called out for his lies by the chief planner, while steadfastly maintaining support for the Scarborough subway. I can give lots more examples but this is the SmartTrack thread, so lemme address that right now.

For all the time and resources that have gone into SmartTrack, there is a long list of planned transit projects that have long been on the books, been badly needed to reduce travel times and relieve congestion, but has not been afforded any attention by the Mayor's office. He could have picked any number of these projects to build, and all that shmoozing with Harper, Wynne and Trudeau could have secured funding for priority transit lines rather than hot air. SmartTrack was never about relieving the subway despite all the noise coming from the campaign. As Munro has said, SmartTrack is a real estate development scheme intended to enable commercial development in the 905, and somehow it became the job of Toronto taxpayers to shell out billions to do that. SmartTrack was inspired by a report created by an incompetent consulting firm that relies on outdated google maps images and claims that the market for downtown office space is dead. Since then, what has ensued to this day was a stunning display of bull-headed indifference to facts, pie in the sky financing and technical assumptions, and cavalier dismissal of any doubters that dared to question SmartTrack.

I don't know how you can say that the mayor listens to expert advice. He kept on clinging to his campaign talking points the entire time as if they were true, even though the SmartTrack reports are not done yet. Where is the expert advice that said SmartTrack is an acceptable substitute for the downtown relief line? Where is the expert advice that says tax increment financing is a viable funding mechanism? What kind of evidence-based transit plan requires a lobby group run by paid shills and political operatives to promote it using recycled campaign materials?

To paraphrase what Royson James recently wrote:

Rarely has a Toronto mayor promoted a transit project with such glee, vigour and surety - minus even a modicum of evidence that the line is needed, will attract riders and fit with other planned projects.


Here we have a reasonable and sound plan that not only allows Tory to save face and claim credit for driving forward (he deserves this because he is taking the mantle as as, but actually builds upon what the Province was planning for GO RER, ditches the worst and stupidest parts of SmartTrack, and will actually provide a very useful transit service... that even your bromance Gord Perk supports. We should all get behind this plan, fix the parts that are still problematic, and support a politician that knows how to change his mind..and then get on to pushing forward the next and essential project: the DRL.

Lets go back to that article for a moment:

Staff with the city and the regional transit agency Metrolinx have been working on how to integrate SmartTrack with plans to expand GO Transit rail service, and, according to sources and a draft government document, a revamped version of the plan is taking shape. Metrolinx staff are expected to recommend...

Please send your praise to the staff at the city and Metrolinx. They are the ones who have worked long and hard to finally dumb down the Dumbtrack and drag the mayor out of his little world of the make-believe. We still haven't heard anything from Tory about the new proposal, but at this point I fully expect him to finally move on only because he has no other choice. Regardless, the fact that it took this long to do so is utterly unacceptable.

If I were you I would wait until the plans are finalized before you call it "reasonable and sound". A lot could still change since there are many details to be worked out such as how to get service down to 5 min headways (which may require doubling or even quadrupling tracks), and how to pay for it. But for now it's a step in the right direction. If reason prevails I will give credit to mayor Tory at a later time, and only after he publicly retracts all the bunk he said about the DRL that he worked so hard to tarnish. When the reports come out, he needs to redeem himself by publicly retracting every false or misleading BS that he stuck to for so long. Enough with the hydro privatization stupidity and all those various "the private sector will pay for it" schemes that pretend to be free for taxpayers. Transportation in this city has become absolutely dysfunctional thanks to politics, so it's about time that our leaders get on with building transit that meets the needs of the city rather than the needs of developers and election campaigns.
 
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We still haven't heard anything from Tory about the new proposal, but at this point I fully expect him to finally move on only because he has no other choice. Regardless, the fact that it took this long to do so is utterly unacceptable.
Unacceptable based on what? It's not like this is causing huge construction delays.
 
Toronto has 2 major problems with rapid transit both of which are Toronto's fault.

First, Torontonians and City Hall have this bizarre notion that something is not a subway unless it goes underground.
Second, Toronto wants LRT but builds it as streetcars. They are ROW and POP which is great but the reality is that they are still a long way from being rapid transit. Improved transit certainly but not rapid.

Thankfully Tory refuses to use these stupid ideas when proposing rapid transit. He knows that at grade/elevated subways are the norm thru the world not the exception particularly in newer systems and suburban ones. The ST from Mount Dennis to Kennedy is a full subway by absolutely any definition.

RER would not be near as effective or well used by Torontonians because it will have an extra fare and ST will be part of the TTC.

Amen. This is exactly the issue with the TTC. They had ample opportunity to built LRT on Queens Quay, Spadina, and St. Clair but there is this non-sensical notion of local service which creates stops less than 200m apart making these reliable but very slow. During peak times it's faster to walk than to use transit. Our downtown is compact but getting around takes way too long because we don't have any rapid transit outside of the subways.

Imagine if all the streetcar lines operated like LRTs, with ROW, POP and stop spacing between 4-500m apart with signal priority. It would not cost much but provide much faster service.
 
Two points:

$2.6 billion from the Federal government is on the table for SmartTrack. Assuming this project as we know it is DOA,

Could, or rather should, that money instead be used to;

A) Build a phase one DRL from Pape to Queen-Yonge (maybe not all the stations would be built right away but roughed in to be added later) OR
B) Extend the Eglinton Crosstown grade separated from Mt Dennis to Pearson (midblock stops eliminated)

Since both were critical components of the SmartTrack plan, I figure either project would be a worthwhile goal to accomplish.
 
Two points:

$2.6 billion from the Federal government is on the table for SmartTrack. Assuming this project as we know it is DOA,

Could, or rather should, that money instead be used to;

A) Build a phase one DRL from Pape to Queen-Yonge (maybe not all the stations would be built right away but roughed in to be added later) OR
B) Extend the Eglinton Crosstown grade separated from Mt Dennis to Pearson (midblock stops eliminated)

Since both were critical components of the SmartTrack plan, I figure either project would be a worthwhile goal to accomplish.

As many have said, the Province has already promised to build the DRL. I would vote for B). The SmartTrack from Mount Dennis to Kennedy is also being built by the province. This rapid link to the airport is all that's missing.
 
All the streetcar lines move in excess of 15 km/h, including in mixed traffic. A typical healthy person can walk 5 kph.
The problem Tiger is that you say things as if they are fact 100% of the time. I get it that the data says that is typically the time it takes but are you saying you never have been on a stuckj street car in rush hour. You have never walked faster or at least the same pace of a street car? I'm not sayin g this happens all the time but it does happen. And when it does it causes frustration and many to think that transit isn't worth it. It is like going to a restaurant and finding a hair in your meal. you could go back to that same restaurant the next 100 times and not get another hair in your meal. The likelihood though is that you give up on the restaurant and never go back. The TTC has a poor reputation and this is why it needs ROWS and LRTs to get people back on board.
 
All the streetcar lines move in excess of 15 km/h, including in mixed traffic. A typical healthy person can walk 5 kph.

Not sure about streetcars, but a few times I literally beat Eglinton bus from Bathurst to Yonge. That happened ~ 10 years ago, and always during heavy snow (not on a regular day of course).
 
One of the joys of taking the streetcar to work, is that I can miss one, and I can always just walk along and catch it at the next stop.

Oops, I mean almost never catch it. During an incident it might happen; or at one odd stop where there's a lot of traffic congestion. But a blanket statement saying it's faster to walk at peak times than use transit only demonstrates either complete ignorance, or a willingness to bend the truth.
 
Two points:

$2.6 billion from the Federal government is on the table for SmartTrack. Assuming this project as we know it is DOA,

Could, or rather should, that money instead be used to;

A) Build a phase one DRL from Pape to Queen-Yonge (maybe not all the stations would be built right away but roughed in to be added later) OR
B) Extend the Eglinton Crosstown grade separated from Mt Dennis to Pearson (midblock stops eliminated)

Since both were critical components of the SmartTrack plan, I figure either project would be a worthwhile goal to accomplish.

Option (B) may be possible (elevated), but I doubt such option will be chosen. Fully grade-separated is an overkill for that corridor.

However, grade-separating at a few key intersections would be useful.

Option (A) is out of question; some money will be needed to upgrade the rail corridor between Mt Dennis and Kennedy, and some for the Eglinton West LRT extension (which is not funded at all as of now). What's left, will not be enough to build the 7 km of tunnel that constitutes the minimum useful Phase 1 of DRL.
 
All the streetcar lines move in excess of 15 km/h, including in mixed traffic. A typical healthy person can walk 5 kph.
In theory! Also, on average. In reality, when I used to live near Church Street and walked along College, I would regularly beat the College Streetcar between St. George and Church.
 

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