Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[andrewpmk]

Building short platforms is definitely short-sighted, but building a ridiculously expensive LRT line on Eglinton which has somewhat longer platforms but low capacity seems like an even worse idea. The cost difference between Eglinton LRT and Canada Line is astounding. We could have easily built elevated outer sections for Eglinton if the construction cost had been at all comparable to the Canada Line.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Except that it is unclear whether you can end up with that same low cost - the requirements for Canada Line is deliberately minimal - and 15K is set as an upper bound with everything is sized to that requirement. Be careful what you wish for, because I have a feeling one would be complaining about how that would limiting in our context. I would be much more confident of increasing the ultimate capacity of EC than CL (particularly when one "liberates" the eastern segment of the line and grade separate it).

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This problem seems to plague LRT systems everywhere.

Collisions haven't "plagued" any of our LRV in ROW operations in this city. Someone could easily compile a list of 100 or so things that have a greater negative impact on our operations.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Building short platforms is definitely short-sighted, but building a ridiculously expensive LRT line on Eglinton which has somewhat longer platforms but low capacity seems like an even worse idea.

Nobody will be saying that 50 years from now

I would be much more confident of increasing the ultimate capacity of EC than CL (particularly when one "liberates" the eastern segment of the line and grade separate it).

AoD

Liberty for Scarborough!

 

[mrxbombastic]

Building short platforms is definitely short-sighted, but building a ridiculously expensive LRT line on Eglinton which has somewhat longer platforms but low capacity seems like an even worse idea. The cost difference between Eglinton LRT and Canada Line is astounding. We could have easily built elevated outer sections for Eglinton if the construction cost had been at all comparable to the Canada Line.

The short platform length has always been a nagging concern of mine RE: Eglinton. I can understand why they would choose not to overbuild the station box (maintenance and cost etc.) but i do hope the tunnel design at least provides provision for future station box expansion. like my ASCII art below.

bad decision
======<| = = = |>======

Better decision
======<==| = = = |==>======

where: >/< are tracks spreading apart and coming closer together; = are a twin set of tracks; and | = = = | represents a three car station box. for sake of diagram each = is approximately one car length.

Similar to what they did on Sheppard Subway, and could consider doing for other grade separated lines.

 

[Platform 27]

^AFAIK, the tracks don't spread apart and come together beyond the station headwalls on Eglinton the same way they do on the original Yonge line. There are two separate TBM-bored tubes with one track in each, spaced a station platform's width apart from one another for the whole underground section, resulting in tracks that are more-or-less dead straight laterally.

 

[GenerationW]

Those who support the sheppard subway. Have you not see the protest the last 2 weeks, or is your head in the sand. There is no contentious political climate right now. Ford is gone, Liberals got reelected. Stop being melodramatic.

Well yeah, some people support Sheppard (as this thread clearly shows), but who are the ones with political power? Ten protestors standing on Sheppard carrying signs doesn't count for much, except perhaps to melodramatic people.

The full-extent of the DRL promise should be `I will rapidly approve any plan that Metrolinx and TTC come up with for the DRL which the province is willing to fund.

And who would you say has lived up to that promise so far? In my opinion Soknacki and Stintz have been unequivocal, while Chow and Tory haven't.

An immediate way to restore respect to the TTC to return to pre frequencies they had in 2005-06 for bus routes.

2005-06? If that happened, I'd have less service on the routes I use the most.

I wouldn't have supported the RL 25 years ago either. In 2031, the line will only move 13k people. 25 years ago, that number would have been far lower. If we built the RL 25 years ago, for at least a few decades we would have a near useless hole in the ground almost as wasteful as that pathetic and disgraceful Sheppard boondoggle.

Killing the DRL 20 years ago is a big reason why we got Sheppard. Which one would you rather have?

 

[andrewpmk]

Collisions haven't "plagued" any of our LRV in ROW operations in this city. Someone could easily compile a list of 100 or so things that have a greater negative impact on our operations.

Happens pretty regularly on the streetcar system.

 

[Voltz]

Building short platforms is definitely short-sighted, but building a ridiculously expensive LRT line on Eglinton which has somewhat longer platforms but low capacity seems like an even worse idea. The cost difference between Eglinton LRT and Canada Line is astounding. We could have easily built elevated outer sections for Eglinton if the construction cost had been at all comparable to the Canada Line.

The main difference with building a Canada Line style line on Eglinton would be that the surface sections would become elevated, and that's not going to be cheaper.

 

[andrewpmk]

The main difference with building a Canada Line style line on Eglinton would be that the surface sections would become elevated, and that's not going to be cheaper.

Somehow the Canada Line still cost far less per km than Eglinton did.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Well yeah, some people support Sheppard (as this thread clearly shows), but who are the ones with political power? Ten protestors standing on Sheppard carrying signs doesn't count for much, except perhaps to melodramatic people.

Why does everything have to spelled out for you? Did you know Brad Duguid and Scarborough Liberal Caucus support the subway? Did you they are part of the reason why we are stuck with the extension?

And who would you say has lived up to that promise so far? In my opinion Soknacki and Stintz have been unequivocal, while Chow and Tory haven't.

Number one, you're opnion doesn't count for jack until election day, number two, all four of them have supported downtown relief, with the other three supporting the DRL and Tory's Smart Track plan.

2005-06? If that happened, I'd have less service on the routes I use the most.

Why are you telling me this? I don't care.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Spadina isn't an LRT because it has no signal priority and close stop spacing. Other than that, the ECLRT and 510 Spadina operate under identical circumstances.

You need to be careful. The people who say LRT=Streetcars will take this and run with it.

Building short platforms is definitely short-sighted, but building a ridiculously expensive LRT line on Eglinton which has somewhat longer platforms but low capacity seems like an even worse idea. The cost difference between Eglinton LRT and Canada Line is astounding. We could have easily built elevated outer sections for Eglinton if the construction cost had been at all comparable to the Canada Line.

Except that it is unclear whether you can end up with that same low cost - the requirements for Canada Line is deliberately minimal - and 15K is set as an upper bound with everything is sized to that requirement. Be careful what you wish for, because I have a feeling one would be complaining about how that would limiting in our context. I would be much more confident of increasing the ultimate capacity of EC than CL (particularly when one "liberates" the eastern segment of the line and grade separate it).

AoD

The main difference with building a Canada Line style line on Eglinton would be that the surface sections would become elevated, and that's not going to be cheaper.

Somehow the Canada Line still cost far less per km than Eglinton did.

FIFW Canada line was up and running in 4 years. No reason other then cost, and what ever we are building, that eglinton should take so much longer.

 

[GenerationW]

Why does everything have to spelled out for you? Did you know Brad Duguid and Scarborough Liberal Caucus support the subway? Did you they are part of the reason why we are stuck with the extension?

Yes I did know that, but who are their point-people on Toronto Council and in Cabinet to push this through the way B-D was done? I don't see anyone.

Sorry, your last sentence makes no sense.

Why are you telling me this? I don't care.

No reason, other than you brought up the idea of returning to 2005-06 schedules, which means most Torontonians would be in the same boat as me.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yes I did know that, but who are their point-people on Toronto Council and in Cabinet to push this through the way B-D was done? I don't see anyone.

You do know Duguid is in cabinet right? Wait, you probably didn't. BD barely made it through council. Brad is why we are stuck with it as well.

Sorry, your last sentence makes no sense.

My post got eaten by the computer.

No reason, other than you brought up the idea of returning to 2005-06 schedules, which means most Torontonians would be in the same boat as me.

You would have something else stupid and snarky if I had said 2004 or 2007.

 

[GenerationW]

You do know Duguid is in cabinet right? Wait, you probably didn't. BD barely made it through council. Brad is why we are stuck with it as well.

Yes I did, but he needed help from more influential members. Minister of Training, Colleges & Universities doesn't exactly cross over much into transit. Premier Wynne and especially Glen Murray were outspoken on B-D. Not a peep from either on Sheppard, or from any key member of Toronto Council. So how can he possibly turn an inch into a mile and advance Sheppard?