Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Toronto has no corporate tax. Like everywhere else it has property tax for commercial property. There's been a program in place since the early Miller years to drop commercial property tax rates relative to residential, to slowly rebalance it.

Well it needs to go fast. We can even get anything going in the city centers because of the tax.

 

[nfitz]

Well it needs to go fast. We can even get anything going in the city centers because of the tax.

The total now is 2.9% compared to 2.1% in places like Mississauga, so it's getting a lot closer. Changes should never be quickly, this would lead to much quicker residential tax increases.

But perhaps you should talk to the feds? The provincial property tax (education tax) for residents is only about 40% of the city's share. But for commercial it's over 80%! The city commercial property tax is about 3 times the residential, but the provincial is about 6.5 times!

 

[ehlow]

It's not about ridership, it is about connectivity and connecting riders on the Spadina line to destinations on the Yonge line and vice versa. I bet you once you open Sheppard-Yonge to Downsview, ridership of the Sheppard line would increase and it would not longer be a stub.

I'm skeptical that ridership will increase a lot if Sheppard-Yonge to Downsview is connected.. Are massive amounts of people going from east Sheppard to York U or something?

 

[rbt]

I'm skeptical that ridership will increase a lot if Sheppard-Yonge to Downsview is connected.. Are massive amounts of people going from east Sheppard to York U or something?

Yes, there hundreds of thousands of people live in SCC and go to York U every day. /end sarcasm directed at others

You are right to be sceptical. Many people seem to look at 401 congestion and believe a nearby subway can also serve that same trip without considering the actual start and end point of those trips. IMO, I think the Highway 407 BRT with highly integrated transfer points is a far better solution than a short extension of Sheppard.

For many trips, such as Whitby to Brampton, 15 minute service on Lake Shore and Georgetown corridors might work as an alternative to the drive on the 401 if we get the last mile service in Brampton fixed up (15 minute trains mean nothing if the connecting bus runs hourly).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well it needs to go fast. We can even get anything going in the city centers because of the tax.

MCC in Mississauga hasn't seen ANY office development for years - and we're talking about commercial tax rate that is significantly lower. In the meantime, Mississauga isn't have any trouble developing offices in the least transit accessible areas. It isn't just a tax thing.

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Didn't the TTC study the Sheppard West Subway and find that ridership would be abysmally low?

 

[Voltz]

Didn't the TTC study the Sheppard West Subway and find that ridership would be abysmally low?

Yes,

but for some reason people think that "connectivity" give those few riders extra weight in transit planning.

 

[WislaHD]

I'm skeptical that ridership will increase a lot if Sheppard-Yonge to Downsview is connected.. Are massive amounts of people going from east Sheppard to York U or something?

I'm thinking more on the lines of how the western half of the city would now be more accessible to those in the Yonge line and the eastern half of the city more accessible to those on the Spadina line.

Some Yonge line users will transfer on Sheppard and again on Spadina to go downtown if it will reach their destination quicker/with less congestion, and vice versa for Spadina line users. (Come to think of it, this would help reduce Yonge-Bloor station capacity issues) Other trip generators besides downtown, such as Fairview, Yorkdale, NYCC and York U would now be much more accessible by public transit to a much larger portion of the city. Besides that, the subway would absorb the Sheppard West bus ridership, how ever many passengers that is.

We will have to wait for an EA to see exactly how much ridership we are talking about here, but something needs to be said about the benefits of connectivity in the transit system.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Some Yonge line users will transfer on Sheppard and again on Spadina to go downtown if it will reach their destination quicker/with less congestion, and vice versa for Spadina line users. (Come to think of it, this would help reduce Yonge-Bloor station capacity issues).

Not to dismiss the value of interconnectivity within the network - but a line like that may very well draw from more additional riders from the western part of the city onto the Yonge line - especially if the train isn't packed at Sheppard southbound.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

but for some reason people think that "connectivity" give those few riders extra weight in transit planning.

Connectivity? Let's get this straight. I advocate for the Sheppard West subway, so I can take the subway all the way to the ski hill, without having to change to a bus.

 

[ehlow]

Yes,

but for some reason people think that "connectivity" give those few riders extra weight in transit planning.

I always get the feeling this subway is strongly influenced by the people who look at the subway map and have an instinctual urge to connect the two branches because "closing the loop looks right".

IE it's based on making the subway map look good or some "connect the dots" urge rather than real ridership projections.

 

[Solid Snake]

I always get the feeling this subway is strongly influenced by the people who look at the subway map and have an instinctual urge to connect the two branches because "closing the loop looks right".

IE it's based on making the subway map look good or some "connect the dots" urge rather than real ridership projections.

I know what you means! Take Montreal for example, how stupid are they for connecting the blue line all the way to the other end of the orange line? The horror... French-Canadians don't know anything about public transit. They should come to us more often for advices...

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I always get the feeling this subway is strongly influenced by the people who look at the subway map and have an instinctual urge to connect the two branches because "closing the loop looks right".

IE it's based on making the subway map look good or some "connect the dots" urge rather than real ridership projections.

We'll...yes

 

[Solid Snake]

Not to dismiss the value of interconnectivity within the network - but a line like that may very well draw from more additional riders from the western part of the city onto the Yonge line - especially if the train isn't packed at Sheppard southbound.

AoD

Do you mean Sheppard Eastbound? I don't see why people would get on the Sheppard line to go on the Yonge line. If were talking about Eglinton-Yonge, then staying on the Spadina line to Eglinton West and transferring to the Crosstown would make more sense.

 

[Solid Snake]

I'm thinking more on the lines of how the western half of the city would now be more accessible to those in the Yonge line and the eastern half of the city more accessible to those on the Spadina line.

Some Yonge line users will transfer on Sheppard and again on Spadina to go downtown if it will reach their destination quicker/with less congestion, and vice versa for Spadina line users. (Come to think of it, this would help reduce Yonge-Bloor station capacity issues) Other trip generators besides downtown, such as Fairview, Yorkdale, NYCC and York U would now be much more accessible by public transit to a much larger portion of the city. Besides that, the subway would absorb the Sheppard West bus ridership, how ever many passengers that is.

We will have to wait for an EA to see exactly how much ridership we are talking about here, but something needs to be said about the benefits of connectivity in the transit system.

I think another benefit was identified. In the event that a Richmond Hill extension would be built, a Sheppard West extension would allow the Wilson Yard to service the Yonge line and would make the construction of a Richmond Hill Yard unnecessary.