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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

innsertnamehere said:
you do realize that there is an entrance directly onto sheppard from Leslie station right..?https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/43.770868,-79.367349/43.77097,-79.369722/@43.771277,-79.366871,3a,75y,185.11h,79.28t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sc-Cn9tEB5HCHkbm3ELn_DA!2e0!4m6!4m5!1m1!4e1!1m1!4e1!3e2?hl=en

Also I believe that Sheppard runs at 5 minute frequencies 24/7. roughly 80% of the ridership runs end to end. (From Sheppard Yonge to Don Mills)
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No I had no idea, thanks. Google maps still told me to use Bessarion though. Either way though, there isn't a huge difference.
 
innsertnamehere said:
you do realize that there is an entrance directly onto sheppard from Leslie station right..?https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/43.770868,-79.367349/43.77097,-79.369722/@43.771277,-79.366871,3a,75y,185.11h,79.28t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sc-Cn9tEB5HCHkbm3ELn_DA!2e0!4m6!4m5!1m1!4e1!1m1!4e1!3e2?hl=en

Also I believe that Sheppard runs at 5 minute frequencies 24/7. roughly 80% of the ridership runs end to end. (From Sheppard Yonge to Don Mills)
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I've been on Sheppard a few times last year and I don't recall it being 5 minutes. But these were all off peak trips (early evenings and Saturday afternoons). Perhaps it's 5 minutes on peak and longer off peak?
 
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=9470
In another thread’s comments, I mentioned that I would post travel pattern info for Scarborough to show how this behaves.

The diagrams linked here were originally produced by Eric Miller at the UofT, and they have been included in a few presentations including one recently at the UTSC Eco-Summit by André Sorensen. The source data come from a 2006 survey conducted by the University on behalf of governments in the GTHA. More recent data are about to be published, but they were not available when these charts were created.
http://stevemunro.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/EricMillerTTS2006ScarboroughODInfoV2.pdf
 
just because 36% or whatever are local trips to the grocery store, doesn't mean you should built transit to serve only those trips. Regional transit would never get built like that as most trips are local in nature.

besides, most congestion exists on regional trips, local trips are less susceptible to congestion. you need to be building transit to get people in and out of those areas quickly, and active transportation as well as improved bus service to get them around on those local trips. Saving 2 minutes on a 10 minute trip to the grocery store isn't as big a deal as saving 10 minutes on a 45 minute commute to downtown or somewhere else IMO.

local trips in their nature don't require high capacity solutions anyway as the trip distances are short and mixed as the vehicles travel the route with high passenger turnover rates. The SRT was an inherently regional service anyway, the ridership statistics on the local stations on it prove it. well over 90% of the trips on the line are to and from Kennedy to make regional trips using the B-D line.
 
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innsertnamehere said:
just because 36% or whatever are local trips to the grocery store, doesn't mean you should built transit to serve only those trips. Regional transit would never get built like that as most trips are local in nature.

besides, most congestion exists on regional trips, local trips are less susceptible to congestion. you need to be building transit to get people in and out of those areas quickly, and active transportation as well as improved bus service to get them around on those local trips. Saving 2 minutes on a 10 minute trip to the grocery store isn't as big a deal as saving 10 minutes on a 45 minute commute to downtown or somewhere else IMO.

local trips in their nature don't require high capacity solutions anyway as the trip distances are short and mixed as the vehicles travel the route with high passenger turnover rates. The SRT was an inherently regional service anyway, the ridership statistics on the local stations on it prove it. well over 90% of the trips on the line are to and from Kennedy to make regional trips using the B-D line.
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remember these numbers are old, the 2011 numbers have not come out yet.
 
I think, just from a glance, there are some pretty enticing benefits to at least extending the western portion of this line to meetup with the Spadina line if, for nothing more than, much needed redundancy between the two lines allowing for trips to shift between yonge and Spadina during service disruptions. Not to mention that it would connect one of the largest trip generators in the region (YorkDale mall) with the North-East corner of the city. Right now, if as it stands, currently the trip takes 3 transfers from the North-East, two of which are by bus. The western extension could cut this to two for a lot of people. There's also the benefit of connecting York U through it as well and opening up NYCC to the North-West part of the city. I doubt we'd see a sufficient trip generation alogn the extension, but in a regional scope it definitely looks like it would have its merits.
 
BMO said:
I think, just from a glance, there are some pretty enticing benefits to at least extending the western portion of this line to meetup with the Spadina line if, for nothing more than, much needed redundancy between the two lines allowing for trips to shift between yonge and Spadina during service disruptions. Not to mention that it would connect one of the largest trip generators in the region (YorkDale mall) with the North-East corner of the city. Right now, if as it stands, currently the trip takes 3 transfers from the North-East, two of which are by bus. The western extension could cut this to two for a lot of people. There's also the benefit of connecting York U through it as well and opening up NYCC to the North-West part of the city. I doubt we'd see a sufficient trip generation alogn the extension, but in a regional scope it definitely looks like it would have its merits.
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Good points made here, but it still seems lower priority to me than say the relief line or Yonge north extension.

While you made some good points with regards to connectivity and redundancy, I often worry that people want this because it looks good on the map to "close the loop" or something like that.

I'm personally skeptical about arguments that we should build transit lines to "close loops" or connect things because they look good on the rapid transit map. (not directed at you BMO, but I find others make arguments like that)
 
ehlow said:
Good points made here, but it still seems lower priority to me than say the relief line or Yonge north extension.

While you made some good points with regards to connectivity and redundancy, I often worry that people want this because it looks good on the map to "close the loop" or something like that.

I'm personally skeptical about arguments that we should build transit lines to "close loops" or connect things because they look good on the rapid transit map. (not directed at you BMO, but I find others make arguments like that)
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You've hit the nail on the head. It's something that makes the map look pretty. That's it.

If you want to 'close the loop', paint some bus lanes on Sheppard West from Sheppard Station to Downsview Station and call it a day. You'll get from Sheppard Station to Downsview in 10 minutes.

You probably don't even need the bus lanes. The 196 Sheppard can take you between the two stations in a few minutes.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
You've hit the nail on the head. It's something that makes the map look pretty. That's it.

If you want to 'close the loop', paint some bus lanes on Sheppard West from Sheppard Station to Downsview Station and call it a day.
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Paint some bus lanes on Sheppard East from Don Mills Station to Meadowvale and call it a day. Your obsession with the SELRT (which is overkill) is very disturbing :rolleyes:

Support a SEBRT like UT member Gweed!!!!!
 
Juan_Lennon416 said:
Paint some bus lanes on Sheppard East from Don Mills Station to Meadowvale and call it a day. Your obsession with the SELRT (which is overkill) is very disturbing :rolleyes:

Support a SEBRT like UT member Gweed!!!!!
Click to expand...

Right.. supporting a funded and approved LRT is "obsession" and "disturbing".

In my opinion TheTigerMaster is a great contributor to the discussions here, I enjoy his posts.

Support a FWLRT like UT member TheTigerMaster!!!!!
 
Juan_Lennon416 said:
Paint some bus lanes on Sheppard East from Don Mills Station to Meadowvale and call it a day. Your obsession with the SELRT (which is overkill) is very disturbing :rolleyes:

Support a SEBRT like UT member Gweed!!!!!
Click to expand...

Nope. Usage on Sheppard East was projected to be greater than 4,000 pphpd. That's above the practical limit for BRT. If you were to install BRT on Sheppard East, on day one you'd need to replace it with LRT. Keep in mind that the modelling needs to be redone now that the extension of Line 2 will be terminating at Sheppard Avenue East. This likely means that usage of SELRT will be a little less than 4,000 pphpd, but still more than enough to justify LRT.

Furthermore, on both Sheppard East and Finch West, operational costs of LRT are significantly lower than for BRT. According to the Sheppard East & Finch West EAs, once you get over about 2,000 pphpd, BRT becomes more expensive than LRT to operate. This is because BRT needs more vehicles, more drivers etc...
 
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