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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

sheppard was at 2,900 I thought with finch being closer to 2,600. Eglinton surface portion would be at 3,600, underground at 5,900 and Scarborough with 8,000 on the LRT or 9,500 with the current subway plan.
 
Finch was between 2,300 and 2,800 [EA]. I seem to remember Sheppard being 4,000, but I may be getting that number confused with the Sheppard East Subway. Either way, both have more than enough usage on day one for LRT because of the lower cost to operate the LRT and because the LRT will allow for more ridership growth (BRT would have to be replaced/upgraded far sooner than LRT)
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
Finch was between 2,300 and 2,800 [EA]. I seem to remember Sheppard being 4,000, but I may be getting that number confused with the Sheppard East Subway. Either way, both have more than enough usage on day one for LRT because of the lower cost to operate the LRT and because the LRT will allow for more ridership growth (BRT would have to be replaced/upgraded far sooner than LRT)
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Support a ECLRT Phase 2 like UT member denfromoakvillemilton!!!!!
 
Didn't that have something like 1,400 PPHD? very little? I mean it runs through what is essentially the middle of nowhere.
 
Only 1,400 pphpd? I'd expect it to have far more than that. I didn't even know that ECLRT Phase 2 was studied. And I wouldn't call Eglinton West 'the middle of nowhere'.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
You've hit the nail on the head. It's something that makes the map look pretty. That's it.

If you want to 'close the loop', paint some bus lanes on Sheppard West from Sheppard Station to Downsview Station and call it a day. You'll get from Sheppard Station to Downsview in 10 minutes.

You probably don't even need the bus lanes. The 196 Sheppard can take you between the two stations in a few minutes.
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hmm, so take an LRT, take a subway and take a BRT? What are we building an amusement ride? We're talking about transit that makes it EASIER not more convoluted to get places.
 
innsertnamehere said:
I mean middle of nowhere by little no no walk up destinations on the route, it would be almost 100% bus transfers.
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Are apartment tower clusters like this insufficient? http://goo.gl/maps/6DGpn

There are a few more at Kipling too, and the airport of course.

The Eg West bus that runs through there has high ridership, although it's not clear which part of the line has more or less.
 
BMO said:
hmm, so take an LRT, take a subway and take a BRT? What are we building an amusement ride?
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Actually yes. I'm assuming you haven't yet seen the Sheppard West Gondola and Swan boat.

But seriously, very few people will be making that trip. We have bigger priorities. Even an LRT there is a little much.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Nope. Usage on Sheppard East was projected to be greater than 4,000 pphpd. That's above the practical limit for BRT. If you were to install BRT on Sheppard East, on day one you'd need to replace it with LRT. Keep in mind that the modelling needs to be redone now that the extension of Line 2 will be terminating at Sheppard Avenue East. This likely means that usage of SELRT will be a little less than 4,000 pphpd, but still more than enough to justify LRT.

Furthermore, on both Sheppard East and Finch West, operational costs of LRT are significantly lower than for BRT. According to the Sheppard East & Finch West EAs, once you get over about 2,000 pphpd, BRT becomes more expensive than LRT to operate. This is because BRT needs more vehicles, more drivers etc...
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Last number I saw was 3,100 was for Sheppard East, and that was before the Bloor-Danforth extension. And remember, that peak hour peak point number is for just east of Don Mills. East of McCowan, that number drops off a cliff. The numbers west of McCowan do justify LRT, but they're also well within the range of BRT.

The subway extension will also significantly lower the peak point, because the flow will change from uni-directional to bi-directional.
 
gweed123 said:
Last number I saw was 3,100 was for Sheppard East, and that was before the Bloor-Danforth extension. And remember, that peak hour peak point number is for just east of Don Mills. East of McCowan, that number drops off a cliff. The numbers west of McCowan do justify LRT, but they're also well within the range of BRT.
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I'd say that BRT becomes impractical (and very, very expensive) once you reach 4,000, so it's probably best to built the LRT with 3,100 then have to replace the BRT in the not too distant future.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I'd say that BRT becomes impractical (and very, very expensive) once you reach 4,000, so it's probably best to built the LRT with 3,100 then have to replace the BRT in the not too distant future.
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That is true, but I don't think it will reach 4,000. I don't even think it will reach 3,100 now that the subway is being extended. The total ridership will likely go up, but the peak point ridership will go down.

I just think there are better ways to spend the ~$650 million that would be the difference between the LRT and BRT option, especially since the massive MSF at Conlins is no longer being used for 2 lines.
 
gweed123 said:
That is true, but I don't think it will reach 4,000. I don't even think it will reach 3,100 now that the subway is being extended. The total ridership will likely go up, but the peak point ridership will go down.

I just think there are better ways to spend the ~$650 million that would be the difference between the LRT and BRT option, especially since the massive MSF at Conlins is no longer being used for 2 lines.
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What kind of timeframe are we dealing with for an increase of 900 pphpd

And I do agree that if there were an alternative proposal that would better spend the ~$650 Million we should support it. But seeing that there has not been any alternative proposal I think the LRT is the best option (especially b/c lower ongoing operatings costs). And I don't think that anyone wants to risk reopening the Sheppard Subway debate.
 
i support the Sheppard LRT for political realities, not planning ones. As TTM has mentioned, it would kill the sheppard subway for good, and there is also the fact that we are so far into this already I would rather just build it and get done with it. Metrolinx will be handing out the conlins yard construction contract any month now. they were supposed to do it in October before the SRT replacement got cancelled, so they should be finishing up the redesign soon and be tendering it any day now.
 
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