Sheppard East LRT - Cancel or Continue?

[scarberiankhatru]

I think they only care that STC is a "node", and everyone should be forced to transfer to other services there.

Pretty silly to me.

I could be wrong, but that is what I am getting from all this.

Yes, you're right about STC being a hub/node, which makes you totally wrong.

STC is the only place in Scarborough that makes any sense as a transfer point and the only place that makes any sense as the terminus of the Danforth line. Instead, everyone will be forced to transfer at Kennedy, which is surrounded by absolutely nothing. STC is fed by over a dozen bus routes coming from every direction, is home to thousands of people (and growing), has thousands of jobs, a civic centre and other services, parking for drivers and passengers, 401 access for GO buses, and, of course, Scarborough's largest trip generator and only mall.

 

[Dan416]

Yes, you're right about STC being a hub/node, which makes you totally wrong.

STC is the only place in Scarborough that makes any sense as a transfer point and the only place that makes any sense as the terminus of the Danforth line. Instead, everyone will be forced to transfer at Kennedy, which is surrounded by absolutely nothing. STC is fed by over a dozen bus routes coming from every direction, is home to thousands of people (and growing), has thousands of jobs, a civic centre and other services, parking for drivers and passengers, 401 access for GO buses, and, of course, Scarborough's largest trip generator and only mall.

Denying STC/SCC a subway is like denying MCC a subway. They're quite similar.

 

[doady]

Ahem. I don't support any subway to MCC. Unless of course it is the Hurontario subway.

 

[Tuscani01]

Ahem. I don't support any subway to MCC. Unless of course it is the Hurontario subway.

What about an extension of BD to Hurontario, and eventually a Hurontario line that connects to BD?

 

[kEiThZ]

So now everyone can relax. We are not pushing for the cancellation of the LRT. We are pushing for the upgrade of the western portion of the line. That should calm the frayed nerves of the Justin1000 types.

 

[kEiThZ]

Anybody who feels a LRT to the zoo is worthwhile needs to take a ride on Google streetview from Markham to Meadowvale. Have a look at the planned stop, mid-block between washburn way and Neilson at the catwalks from Burrows Halls and Howell Square (43.797019,-79.223056). Only after that experience can we have an honest debate.

 

[Second_in_pie]

While it sounds better saying "upgrade" rather than cancel, LRT east of Agincourt is still huge overkill. I certainly don't endorse building a subway but then building a LRT east of Agincourt anyways. The capacity is not needed in any way, and the speed will be the same as LRT all the way until Malvern. If extra speed is needed, bus/HOV lanes should be more than sufficient.

 

[kEiThZ]

While it sounds better saying "upgrade" rather than cancel, LRT east of Agincourt is still huge overkill. I certainly don't endorse building a subway but then building a LRT east of Agincourt anyways. The capacity is not needed in any way, and the speed will be the same as LRT all the way until Malvern. If extra speed is needed, bus/HOV lanes should be more than sufficient.

Even though it's not needed, it may have to be tolerated as a compromise solution for any campaign.

 

[Dan416]

I agree.

 

[EnviroTO]

If the plan was to push for the upgrade of some segments to subways and at the same time ensure none of the LRT lines were cancelled to fund it then probably there wouldn't be anyone that would have a problem with it. I think the issue is that people, like myself, believe the funding is finite and time limited (i.e. once the recession is over and leadership changes it will completely dry up for a decade). I think the delay of the Waterfront West LRT line to 2026 and beyond is an example of what will happen to many of the projects including the Yonge subway and the unfunded LRT routes.

 

[nfitz]

Yeah, I think EnviroTO has nailed it. It isn't a debate on what would be nice, or useful; but what to do with the limited resources at hand; and is it worth giving up the one in hand, for the two in the bush?

 

[Dan416]

Yeah, I think EnviroTO has nailed it. It isn't a debate on what would be nice, or useful; but what to do with the limited resources at hand; and is it worth giving up the one in hand, for the two in the bush?

I think a limited subway expansion with the money we have now is preferable to building a Sheppard East LRT to nowhere. At least if the Sheppard Subway reached Agincourt, you could have a proper terminus there with the GO train and if you really need an LRT from there to Zoo.

 

[EnviroTO]

The most significant issue with transit on Sheppard today is buses backed up from Victoria Park to Don Mills in traffic. The most important thing for anyone should be getting construction significantly under way to resolve that problem before the next election. We have gone from a decent economy with money available to be spent, to a recession economy with money made available for stimulus, and the next government is going to be post recession dealing with little money available for anything. If it realistically can't get under construction by the end of 2010 then it likely will take a long long time for money to be available. Subway projects move slowly. The Spadina subway extension passed through an EA process with station concepts quite a while ago and it wont see significant construction for another year. A Sheppard East subway would likely not make this round of approved and funded projects and would leave people in traffic jams on Sheppard for more than a decade. The cancellation of the Eglinton subway has led to 20 years with no improvements on Eglinton. Can people in traffic jams on Sheppard East afford to wait for 20 years for a subway?

 

[kEiThZ]

Construction of the LRT is due to start in the East first....I believe the first segments are east of Markham or McCowan. That does nothing to address the bus congestion at Don Mills. As has been said before the best thing to solve the congestion would be a new bus ramp. Extending the subway would solve the problem in its entirety since very little bus service would be required on the subway route and Sheppard East beyond Agincourt would not need any bus service beyond what's required now, save the 190 to STC.

 

[EnviroTO]

Construction of the LRT is due to start in the East first....I believe the first segments are east of Markham or McCowan. That does nothing to address the bus congestion at Don Mills.

That is an enabling project for the whole project which does address bus congestion at Don Mills. They are preparing engineering documents to be put out to tender on other parts right now. By next year the project will be significantly under way. A subway would mean sending things back to public open houses and discussions about where station entrances will be located. It would be a delay beyond the end of the recession into unknown funding situations.