nfitz
Superstar
Should the construction of the funded 15-km Sheppard East LRT continue, or should the construction be cancelled, and instead consideration be made of extending the Sheppard subway.
|
|
|
Sheppard East LRT - Cancel or Continue?
- Thread starter nfitz
- Start date
kEiThZ
Superstar
Calling it study is a little disingenuous. There's a valid EA till Vic Park that could be used. All that's left to do is award contracts. As for concerns about negotiating with Metrolinx and the federal government, I am willing to be my next paycheque that they would aceede to the city's request if asked.
So it should not be a choice between study this and build that. The subway could be built just as easily as the LRT. There are no major obstacles save some paperwork.
So it should not be a choice between study this and build that. The subway could be built just as easily as the LRT. There are no major obstacles save some paperwork.
DavidH
Senior Member
Posting your comment here after the identical comment was already answered in the other thread could also be called disingenuous.
But more to the point, we're not going to get an immediate switch to a subway for the entire length. "Success" if it were to come would be a delay on Sheppard followed by an assessment of conversion options, including a determination of how to pay the higher costs.
I voted in favour of a study but I would have NOT voted in favour of an immediate conversion. There are too many unanswered questions.
But more to the point, we're not going to get an immediate switch to a subway for the entire length. "Success" if it were to come would be a delay on Sheppard followed by an assessment of conversion options, including a determination of how to pay the higher costs.
I voted in favour of a study but I would have NOT voted in favour of an immediate conversion. There are too many unanswered questions.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I should have posted the originial comment here but whatever....it's no greater an offence than advertising the poll in other threads or conducting another poll when one has already been conducted.
As for the impact of "success".... Metrolinx has already studied conversion in its BCA. They have an order of magnitude costing too. I am not suggesting they 'convert' the line. Ideally, I'd like to see the subway extended till Agincourt and the LRT truncated there. This hopefully would represent a good compromise for most parties involved and present a solution that easily negotiable.
As for the impact of "success".... Metrolinx has already studied conversion in its BCA. They have an order of magnitude costing too. I am not suggesting they 'convert' the line. Ideally, I'd like to see the subway extended till Agincourt and the LRT truncated there. This hopefully would represent a good compromise for most parties involved and present a solution that easily negotiable.
DavidH
Senior Member
The problem is that the Metrolinx BCA studies don't look at overall network effects and have lots of problems.
I'd rather see us take a different look at the problems of providing medium distance service across the city (not just on Sheppard) and finding a less expensive option to maintain local service as congestion rises (e.g. BRT lanes where needed). This implies that the Sheppard subway may or may NOT be the right choice.
We all have different points of objection to TC as it stands, of course. Those who simply want a Sheppard subway are right that an extension to Vic Park can be built with the existing EA while recognizing design / engineering work is still required, and a new EA done for whatever portion past Vic Park is needed. The problem is cost. Given a limited set of dollars, a conversion of Sheppard to subway is going to mean dollars taken away from something else. That may be entirely legitimate but would need to be studied in the context of the entire network.
Last edited:
nfitz
Superstar
No where near as disingenious as reposting your comment in this thread, an hour after I replied to your comment in the other thread!
What do you mean all there is to do is award contracts? What about the money? The Sheppard East LRTwas fully funded by the provincial and federal governments without one drop of city money; renegotiating wouldn't be quick, and there is no guarantee that either level of government woudldn't cancel the project instead, given their huge budget deficits, the significnant reduction in ridings that would be provided service, and existence of various studies that indicate that subway isn't needed.
Assuming there is $1.1-billion available for Sheppard East, then that would get you ... oh let's be generous, 4 km of subway, just enough to get to Birchmount (new stations at Consumer's Drive, Victoria Park, Warden, and Birchmount though I'd say 3-km is more likely, terminating at Warden). That would leave you about $1.5 billion short ... and surely there would have to be study done on how to build a line for that money, or where to get the money
A fool and his money are soon parted ... well not likely soon, given that Metrolinx has been sitting on city's request to increase the priority on the Downton Relief Line for almost a year ... why do you think they would move any faster on this?
The paperwork being over a billion $ bills! I'm just shocked at the naivety here!
You could simply delete that post then if you made an error; and I'd then delete the follow-up there.
There has been no poll on cancelling the LRT. The only previous poll I've seen here was before any decisions had been made. There's a huge difference between supporting something when it's being studied, to trying to oppose it once it's funded and under construction!
Last edited:
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
How about neither? I don't care for Sheppard as a subway, but I also don't care for an LRT/subway mix for the corridor either. What should be put forward is conversion of the subway portion to LRT and connect Yonge/Sheppard to the Finch West line.
AoD
AoD
kEiThZ
Superstar
^ But how do you sell 600 million for a reduction in capacity? I personally would not mind a conversion of the subway to get rid of the transfer. Unfortunately, I feel that the TTC is rather doctrinaire about this. They view it as a waste to convert anything, especially if it means reducing capacity.
nfitz
Superstar
Fair comment ... but that is west of Don Mills; the poll is on service east of Don Mills.
DavidH
Senior Member
Actually, your wording just says "Sheppard East" without any mention of Don Mills. Conversion of the subway would be on Sheppard East.
Rainforest
Senior Member
^ Service east of Don Mills is necessarily affected by the configuration west of Don Mills.
IMO a meaningful poll should include 2 more options:
3) Continue with LRT construction in the east, but at the same time, study the upgrade to subway west of Agincourt. (This is what I would vote for.)
4) As mentioned above - continouos LRT to Yonge via Sheppard tunnel. (I don't think this is a good idea, but should be an option in the poll nevertheless.)
Amongst Options (1) and (2), I have nothing to vote for.
IMO a meaningful poll should include 2 more options:
3) Continue with LRT construction in the east, but at the same time, study the upgrade to subway west of Agincourt. (This is what I would vote for.)
4) As mentioned above - continouos LRT to Yonge via Sheppard tunnel. (I don't think this is a good idea, but should be an option in the poll nevertheless.)
Amongst Options (1) and (2), I have nothing to vote for.
Brandon716
Senior Member
As someone who thinks the funds could be well used in other areas before putting toward an LRT, yes I would vote to can the project and put it toward other projects or a subway.
OR a conversion of the entire system to LRT with height compatible cars that are comparable to the subway so there is no transfer point, with a change of plan so that it serves Scarborough Centre.
OR a conversion of the entire system to LRT with height compatible cars that are comparable to the subway so there is no transfer point, with a change of plan so that it serves Scarborough Centre.
nfitz
Superstar
The poll says "No, let's finish building the LRT from Don Mills station eastwards.". The thread title says "Sheppard East LRT - Cancel or Continue". As there are no plans to convert any subway, and the entire project is east of Don Mills, then conversion could neither be cancelled or continued.
DavidH
Senior Member
One of the *options* on your poll says to build the LRT from Don Mills, correct. The poll question itself is more generic, and it could certainly include other possible options. Your call, of course; I'm just pointing out that including conversion is not inconstant with the poll question.
nfitz
Superstar
I'd assume that if the project was stopped, then Option 3 would be part of what would be studied. As the existing money wouldn't even be enough to get the subway to Kennedy, then you'd have to find a way to make it cheaper, or get more money. They way I envisioned it, if you think you'd vote 3), you should be voting to stop the LRT and extend the subway.
I was looking at this as more of a Yes/No referendum on stopping the current project or not. An examination of various options on a theoretical basis would be either another, or previous, poll.