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Rob Ford - Why the Supervillian?

I share RF's lack of enthusiasm for Transit City, all it does is replace a bus with a streetcar. Service is no faster or more frequent but it does make life tougher for the motorists. If Toronto aspires to great things like New York they must imagine what New York would look like today if 75 years ago the city administration had invoked a Transit City plan and built streetcar lines instead of subways.

Toronto is a big city on the cusp of great things, please don't think so small, raise my tax bill 20% and do this transit thing right.

I much prefer subways too, especially in winter! The problem is, you need to spend big bucks to build them. You can't have lower taxes and more subways. That's why I don't believe in lower taxes. Toronto's taxes are actually lower than the 905, yet you don't hear them jumping all over Hazel for it. They just pay it. (and they even get worse services)
 
FS:

For your record, I think the debate over your competence, or the lackthereof, has been throughly settled in the previous discussion in this very thread about the LRV facility. Like RF, you have proven to be ill-informed, unwilling to admit to errors, eager to blame others for your mistakes, and when push comes to shove, offers nothing but verbose apologies that is short on genuine regrets but laden with emotional manipulation. Please, individuals of your typology are quite frankly inappropriate to lead in ANY setting.

Oh, I've been humbled by that whole experience, I had no idea that I was coming across as crazed to the forum. Reading back the posts now, I wished I had taken more time to edit and preview before I hit submit. It did however make me realize something, that June of last year Rob Ford was present at that TTC meeting in Leslieville standing up for the constituents while according to anecdotal evidence Giambrone, Bussin and Fletcher were indifferent to the questions being raised. This was long before he could've possibly known Miller was resigning or Tory would not be running in opposition; and he was in one of the safest ward seats in the city. Ergo, what did he stand to gain via being there? It sounds like a genuine case of caring about community issues. Seems like a lot of people don't get it. This isn't so much about Rob Ford as it is about the backlash against self serving politicians using their council seat to promote their own interests and their political agenda which goes opposite to their elected position. They should be representing their constituents best interests, not their own. People are tired of watching tax dollars being spent by councillors on what is basically political activism rather than what is good for the city. It is what drives people to dispair. Manage the cities money, spend it wisely is all we ask. Very few to date have achieved this and those that have are always right of center who realize whose money they are spending. It has to stop somewhere, somehow.

And before I forget - at least be a tad original when it comes to "your" ideas on cutting night service - as per Towhey's blog on the same topic posted eons ago.

AoD

You know, Towhey's blog hadn't even occured to me when I wrote that. This is just another prime example of how much Team Ford's viewpoints kind of coalesce with my own. I don't see how the public sector is all that much more beneficial for several essential services than what private companies could offer. TTC has become a self-serving monopoly - it's overstaffed and overpaid; it's shoving light-rail down the public's throats most of us do not want; its service reliability, speed, and customer relations hace all gone downhill. Miller likes to equate Europe with the "world-class" standards that Toronto should thrive to be living up to (inferiority complex, much?). Did you know that European countries, whose supranational EU government has rigorously enforced "competition" schemes in transport, have basically forced the public-sector out of transportation? In general, the European authorities have split their rail operations between the publicly owned tracks and rights-of-way and the private or semi-private rail service providers with the intention of using the track owner to ensure equitable distribution of resources throughout the country and "better service" through competition in train operations. The biggest expansions of public transit anywhere up until now where done by private companies before they were made public (early NYC, London, Paris, etc). This is because money isn't wasted on uneconomic lines.

I think there is plenty of value in thinking about transit in terms of "things we do because we think the make sense in their own right" and "things we do because we want to have a more fair society". When you combine the two into the same agency, rational decision making becomes paralyzed. The fact that Canadian transit systems have become hugely burdened with social service functions is killing them financially, preventing expansion where it is needed, and creates a stigma around transit, buses in particular, generally as a service for poor and minorities. To change this stigma would very much depend on the incentives the company has to run the services. The buses in London are run by private companies and can run the buses on their own schedules to roughly meet supply and demand. But they also get to capture the revenue they earn, so they have an incentive to keep up good service. The people who are advocating privatization or PPP of public transit (at least those who have any political clout) are not suggesting that the there not be any regulation of transit fares or where transit routes are put. In fact, most of them still want the government to completely make those decisions. They just want the operations of the system to be privatized. Maybe a trial basis outsourcing of TTC operations would make the workers more appreciative of what they have and what they stand to lose via being too greedy, lazy and rude to customers. I applaud any politician with the gumption to challenge a union monopoly in a bid to save taxpayers' money.
 
If one defines efficiency by fare recovery ratio, then yes, TTC compares very favourably to transit systems in Europe, even.

Ask the guy or gal waiting for a 501 streetcar their thoughts on Fare Recovery and they will likely tell you they have no idea what you are talking about. Their definition of efficiency is seeing a streetcar coming to pick them up and hopefully not short turning before they get home.
 
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Ask the guy or gal waiting for a 501 streetcar their thoughts on Fare Recovery and they will likely tell you they have no idea what you are talking about. Their definition of efficiency is seeing a streetcar coming to pick them up and hopefully not short turning before they get home.

Though it's not as if the two issues aren't related. I mean, the most efficient secretery in the world couldn't do as much on a typewriter as they could on a computer, if only their boss would pony up the cash for one - the operating subsidy the TTC gets from higher levels of government, where it exists at all, is pathetically low. I won't say they do the best they could given the circumstances, but they do a fine job with what they've got.
 
I won't say they do the best they could given the circumstances, but they do a fine job with what they've got.

They certainly do not do a fine job, the TTC needs a HUGE boot in the ass to wake them up to the fact that they exist to serve the public, not themselves.

Stand on Spadina Ave at Noon and count the streetcars in the few blocks you can see, last week I saw 8 in about 4 or 5 blocks, that is not efficient.
A bus cruises around my quiet backwater of suburbia every night for hours after everyone has gone to bed, that is not efficient.
 
They certainly do not do a fine job, the TTC needs a HUGE boot in the ass to wake them up to the fact that they exist to serve the public, not themselves.

Stand on Spadina Ave at Noon and count the streetcars in the few blocks you can see, last week I saw 8 in about 4 or 5 blocks, that is not efficient.
A bus cruises around my quiet backwater of suburbia every night for hours after everyone has gone to bed, that is not efficient.

Except that the streetcars are full (mutilply by 2 for the number of buses they replace), and the bus just dropped off your neighbour who worked a night shift or dropped off your neighbour's kids after being downtown.
 
Except that the streetcars are full (mutilply by 2 for the number of buses they replaced)

In the Spadina instance cited none of the streetcars were full or even remotely close to full, that is the inefficiency being referred to.

If a streetcar is capable of carrying twice as many riders as a bus does that mean the headway will double when a streetcar supplants a bus? If yes, the service provided is degraded, not improved. If the headway remains constant the route is overserved.


The bus just dropped off your neighbour who worked a night shift or dropped off your neighbour's kids after being downtown
.

Well then, let's run the bus 24 hours a day just in case someone shows up. Let's do the same thing with the subway for the same reason. That's efficient isn't it?


TTC services are not tailored to demand as they should be.
 
Stand on Spadina Ave at Noon and count the streetcars in the few blocks you can see, last week I saw 8 in about 4 or 5 blocks, that is not efficient.
A bus cruises around my quiet backwater of suburbia every night for hours after everyone has gone to bed, that is not efficient.
Once again, your are confusing the efficiency of the system, and the reliability of the system.

Say for example that the engine on the bus was 110% efficient (which of course is impossible ... as it would generate more fuel than it uses). They bus would be highly efficient. But that has nothing to do with how many passengers are on board.

Time to invest in a dictionary.
 
In the Spadina instance cited none of the streetcars were full or even remotely close to full, that is the inefficiency being referred to.

If a streetcar is capable of carrying twice as many riders as a bus does that mean the headway will double when a streetcar supplants a bus? If yes, the service provided is degraded, not improved. If the headway remains constant the route is overserved.


.

Well then, let's run the bus 24 hours a day just in case someone shows up. Let's do the same thing with the subway for the same reason. That's efficient isn't it?


TTC services are not tailored to demand as they should be.

Better than the 1.3 people per automobile that congest the streets, roads, and highways. Automobiles are very inefficient compared with the TTC.
 
I'd have thought that one could make the TTC more efficient by increasing fares was plainly obvious. You could also make it quicker by driver the buses faster ...

Isn't that all obvious?

I think you are confusing efficiency of the organization, with the efficiency of the user, or the reliability of the organisation.

No, I am not confusing anything. The fare box recovery ratio is the result of an arbitrary decision. It has nothing to do with efficiency. Creating a new definition of the word, for the sake of argument is stupid. To accept that, one would have to also agree with the absurd notion that an automobile becomes more efficient when someone else pays for the gas.
 
The fare box recovery ratio is the result of an arbitrary decision. It has nothing to do with efficiency.
It has everything to do with efficiency.

Simply because such a ratio does not fit your very narrow view of the world, is no reason to dismiss the parameter. It's not a measure of service, but it is certainly a measure of efficiency. It is very much a ratio of the work performed, to the cost.
 
Once again, your are confusing the efficiency of the system, and the reliability of the system.

Reliability is certainly a valid metric but if it is acheived by inefficient methods it is inefficient.

Say for example that the engine on the bus was 110% efficient (which of course is impossible ... as it would generate more fuel than it uses). They bus would be highly efficient. But that has nothing to do with how many passengers are on board.

If fuel efficiency is the sacred yardstick let's solve the problem by replacing all of our vehicles with rickshaws or bicycles. Zero fuel use = perfect efficiency.

The efficiency I am addressing is not that of the vehicles it is the operation of the system and it's managers.
 
The efficiency I am addressing is not that of the vehicles it is the operation of the system and it's managers.
No it isn't, this started because someone said that "Let's all remember that the TTC is the most efficiently operated local transit system in North America, by far. " and you objected. Then they referred you to the Farebox recovery ratio, and someone else also pointed out that "If one defines efficiency by fare recovery ratio, then yes"

It's very clear in the context of the discussion that the talk about efficiency was strictly about fare recovery ratio. If you are trying to change that to a discussion of the efficiency of the transit network, then you are changing the subject.
 
No, I am not confusing anything. The fare box recovery ratio is the result of an arbitrary decision. It has nothing to do with efficiency. Creating a new definition of the word, for the sake of argument is stupid. To accept that, one would have to also agree with the absurd notion that an automobile becomes more efficient when someone else pays for the gas.

Glen has a point. Efficiency should be based on the real full cost of each rider, regardless of whether that cost is farebox recovered or subsidized.

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I don't have any recent data to compare with Philadelphia SEPTA, but I believe that SEPTA would be the lowest cost per rider in USA.
 
It has everything to do with efficiency.

Simply because such a ratio does not fit your very narrow view of the world, is no reason to dismiss the parameter. It's not a measure of service, but it is certainly a measure of efficiency. It is very much a ratio of the work performed, to the cost.

Again, you and AoD are not free to create your own definition of a word. Just what is your definition of efficiency? A TTC fare may represent the cost to you, ignoring any indirect costs, but it has no bearing on the cost to provide that service. By your very arguments the TTC could become the most 'efficient' transit operator in the world by reducing fares to $0. And it would 'cost nothing to boot.

It now appears that you are also bastardising the meaning of 'cost'. The 'cost' to you is not the cost to provide the service. It is what you pay.
 
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