wyliepoon
Senior Member
It would be interesting to see "Asian grandmothers" doing tai-chi in the European-inspired square in Downtown Markham. That would be one of those great images of Canadian multiculturalism, if it becomes reality.
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River Park & Uptown Market (Uptown Markham Phase 1, Times Group, multiple up to 20s, Kirkor) COMPLETE
- Thread starter canarob
- Start date
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
I meant "Asian grandmothers" in a purely stereotypical way...there's a chance most residents of Downtown Markham could be elderly/Asian, in which case a generic New Urbanist space may not reflect how people will actually live. There may be gazebos and rose gardens everywhere, but would Asian grandmothers rather have benches and ponds, or paved areas good for tai chi? Markham seems like a municipality that is realistic enough to recognize what people actually want/need and not simply get caught up in what would be the most "well planned" or "well designed," although I do expect a modicum of Disneyfied quaintness, such as superfluous gazebos or doomed-to-failure-and-will-go-down-in-flames-with-the-best-intentions cafes with patios, etc.
Perhaps the best recipe for success would be for the residential/retail components to truly be an amenity for the office parks (cheap rental condos for young tech guys, lots of places to eat out for lunch, stores to shop at on the way home, etc.), even though this could be considered urban seppuku. There must be some kind of parallel in the US, where a suburban downtown/node springs up with condos and feigned urbanity and functions as a successful community on some levels even though it's all just a glorified office park in the end.
Perhaps the best recipe for success would be for the residential/retail components to truly be an amenity for the office parks (cheap rental condos for young tech guys, lots of places to eat out for lunch, stores to shop at on the way home, etc.), even though this could be considered urban seppuku. There must be some kind of parallel in the US, where a suburban downtown/node springs up with condos and feigned urbanity and functions as a successful community on some levels even though it's all just a glorified office park in the end.
Chuck
Senior Member
I think that it is ultimately connectivity (or lack thereof) that will prevent downtown Markham from becoming anything more than a pleasant to look at part of an otherwise monotonous suburb.
I will use Yonge and Eglinton as an example, because in my opinion it is by far the most perfectly planned and livable part of the GTA. It is located at the crossroads of two major arteries. A dozen transit routes and the only subway line that really matters meet here. It is so well connected to local streets that even if you're 1 km away, it's still a pleasant and enjoyable walk.
Yonge and Eg is a commercial node that developed within an already livable residential area. It was the natural progression. It acts as the town centre, rather than as a destination in and of itself. Markham Centre will be a residential node in the middle of a business park, which means that it will be completely isolated from the surrounding community.
NYCC is likely going to be the only suburban node that truly works because the only thing that it presently lacks is history. The area is only 50 years old, whereas points to the south are an extra generation or two older. Realistically, the only other up and coming node that has a chance of truly working is Yonge and Steeles, or Port Credit if Mississauga chose to make something of it.
I will use Yonge and Eglinton as an example, because in my opinion it is by far the most perfectly planned and livable part of the GTA. It is located at the crossroads of two major arteries. A dozen transit routes and the only subway line that really matters meet here. It is so well connected to local streets that even if you're 1 km away, it's still a pleasant and enjoyable walk.
Yonge and Eg is a commercial node that developed within an already livable residential area. It was the natural progression. It acts as the town centre, rather than as a destination in and of itself. Markham Centre will be a residential node in the middle of a business park, which means that it will be completely isolated from the surrounding community.
NYCC is likely going to be the only suburban node that truly works because the only thing that it presently lacks is history. The area is only 50 years old, whereas points to the south are an extra generation or two older. Realistically, the only other up and coming node that has a chance of truly working is Yonge and Steeles, or Port Credit if Mississauga chose to make something of it.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Chuck, your conclusions about which subcentres will work or not in the GTA and why...
... and your statement that the Yonge subway is the only one that really matters...
... are absolute rubbish, and truly bizarre.
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... and your statement that the Yonge subway is the only one that really matters...
... are absolute rubbish, and truly bizarre.
42
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
North York Centre lacks history? One could argue that the *only* reason it works and the others don't is because it is built upon a 19th century main street...
And Markham Centre is already very well-connected by road/highway.
And Markham Centre is already very well-connected by road/highway.
Urbanmii
New Member
I believe Y+E is no where close to any major highway.. To get to the DVP or 401 it is a good decent 10-15min on a good day. With traffic and at peak times you would be lucky to get to the highway within 30min
taal
Senior Member
In terms of having a car, Y&E is the last place you'd want to be.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
In the context of "white yuppies = success" Yonge & Eglinton is a clear winner. But we all know there's other paths to success.
lordmandeep
Banned
nonetheless, if we had the chance I bet we would all live there...
taal
Senior Member
I'm trying very very hard to find a condo their for next summer 
So yea... you'll get no arguments from me.
So yea... you'll get no arguments from me.
Chuck
Senior Member
Lots of sarcasm in my last post obviously, however Yonge and Eglinton is none the less an absolutely perfect model for the rest of the GTA to follow. The point that I was trying to sarcastically make is that Y+E works because it started out as a local hub, evolved naturally into more of a regional centre, and because transit played a pivotal role in its success since day one.
I truly think that the only mini nodes that will actually become vibrant, and where people will actually choose to not own a car will be the ones along Yonge St. I grew up in the suburbs and enjoyed my childhood, so believe me I'm not biased against the suburbs. But I honestly can't see how Mississauga Centre, Markham Centre, or any other centre could ever become something more than high density but otherwise suburban neighbourhoods.
I truly think that the only mini nodes that will actually become vibrant, and where people will actually choose to not own a car will be the ones along Yonge St. I grew up in the suburbs and enjoyed my childhood, so believe me I'm not biased against the suburbs. But I honestly can't see how Mississauga Centre, Markham Centre, or any other centre could ever become something more than high density but otherwise suburban neighbourhoods.
Solaris
Senior Member
the site has recently been acquired by Times Group (who built much of Leichcroft/Galleria south of Highway 7 between Bayview & Leslie) ... wonder if the design will change ... no update from Town staff on 'next steps 'in the approval process
should 'Times Group' be reflected on the thread name mod ??
Location map (north of Remington's Downtown Markham project):
Lonsmount's Concept Plan:
should 'Times Group' be reflected on the thread name mod ??
Location map (north of Remington's Downtown Markham project):
Lonsmount's Concept Plan:
Solaris
Senior Member
a updated partial concept plan extracted from the Fall 2008 issue of "Markham Centre Development Status"
an overall plan showing all current developments in Markham Centre, Times Group property is smack dab in the middle of this plan, south of Highway 7, east of Warden Avenue
an overall plan showing all current developments in Markham Centre, Times Group property is smack dab in the middle of this plan, south of Highway 7, east of Warden Avenue
wilson_wu
Active Member
Does anyone know what the building on the northside of Highway 7, east of Warden is?
It's lit up like this building at night.
Shame it's located in the middle of nowhere and not in the heart of Downtown Markham.
It's lit up like this building at night.
Shame it's located in the middle of nowhere and not in the heart of Downtown Markham.