River Park & Uptown Market (Uptown Markham Phase 1, Times Group, multiple up to 20s, Kirkor) COMPLETE

[taal]

what's wrong with the markham center area? I think the fact that there are major corporations (IBM, Motorola, Honeywell) creating job growth, there is a theater, cinema, lots of grocery stores, restaurants, stores, one of the best art schools, that results in a decent neighborhood filled with some amenities. Markham Town Center (city hall) surrounded by numerous condo building (eko towers, the Majestic Court and the Circa)all in the same area why would it not work., there is people, things to do, and places to work in? Sure you cant compare it to Downtown toronto, but i think the concept and the vision is there. Just need the talk to be actually implemented and for things to happen then we will really realize if this whole project or Markham Centre would work. If MoveOntario 2020 does actually happen and the finch subway actually get extended to Hwy 7 then this whole area would get a bit more dense as it is not too far from the downtown core but yet far enough from the actual crowd and a good shorter distance to the mountains up north as Canadians skiing/boarding is a very desired sport

I think you're on to something that I and others are failing to see...

In our dreamy vision of a downtown / Eglinton / even NYCC / and a *few* other areas i.e. that "urban culture" being created in Markham Centre there is one thing we are forgetting, and it's pretty important thing at that.

That's not what people want, people move the suburbs to escape the feel of the aforementioned area's, although some, I included can't understand such a need it definitely exists and know one can deny that. Moreover, build your subways, build your LRT/BRT and I'll tell you something, not one person will use it unless they need to, what do I mean? If you have car and live in the suburb you'll choose to drive - the ones who will use VIVA and what not use it because they do not have another option, or their target destination is not car friendly.

I good example; take downtown Toronto, or even Yonge and Eglinton what I absolutely love hearing, because I can not understand any logic behind it is that it is hard to drive downtown, I drive downtown quite a lot and it's easier then driving in many suburbs ... sure you might have to walk a lot after you find a suitable parking space but it's the pre-conceived notion that it is hard to drive that makes it transit friendly ... and that's a good thing.

Anyways, back to argument - I correct my self, I think Markham center has a good chance of becoming what it's intended to be, not the picture all those fancy renders show you but a relatively car friendly neighborhood, in which bits and pieces feel urban enough but safe, of course, with all the amenities you can ask for.

If they can accomplish that I think it'll be a success, even that has it's challenges though.

 

[Urbanmii]

I agree with your point, I guess the point I was trying to make is that I believe Markham Centre would be a good alternative for those who want the life of a suburban neighbourhood while also the convenience of the urban lifestyle.

Not everyone can afford to live in a decent sized condo in the DT area as price is on average 450-500 psf where Warden and 7 you are only looking at about 330-350 and that includes a parking

 

[scarberiankhatru]

This isn't 1955, people don't "move to the suburbs" anymore. Downtown Markham Centre's potential residents are either already in the suburbs, or they're not yet in Canada.

Downtown Markham Centre is intended for those who want the life of an urban neighbourhood but the convenience of a suburban neighbourhood, not the other way around. It may be too fragmented/insular to work...it could be nothing but office parks, creeks and Tridel.

 

[canarob]

This isn't 1955, people don't "move to the suburbs" anymore.

Sure they do. I know many, many people who have moved from the 416 to the 905 for a variety of reasons.

 

[taal]

This isn't 1955, people don't "move to the suburbs" anymore. Downtown Markham Centre's potential residents are either already in the suburbs, or they're not yet in Canada.

Downtown Markham Centre is intended for those who want the life of an urban neighbourhood but the convenience of a suburban neighbourhood, not the other way around. It may be too fragmented/insular to work...it could be nothing but office parks, creeks and Tridel.

If you're implying that *they* want all the amenities that come with an urban center i.e. shopping / restaurants / movies / ... in a short *driving* distance I completely agree.

If you're implying they want the density / pedestrians / traffic / garbage / and so on that come with urban living, then I completely disagree. And you can't have the best of both worlds without scarifying something, and if "Downtown Markham" is in any way successful (I still have my doubts about this) then that's exactly what it will provide, a comprise - parts of two dissimilar worlds, intertwined to satisfy anyone who isn't 100% set on exactly what they want.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Sure they do. I know many, many people who have moved from the 416 to the 905 for a variety of reasons.

Most people in the 416 already live in the suburbs.

 

[Redroom Studios]

this is a huge development to be sure. I am glad that atleast they decided to leave some park area and valley land instead of just paving the whole thing flat. I think we all realize that this land would be developed eventually. What other visions are out there? Would we wait another 30 - 50 years until there is enough mass to justify another business park? I dont think so. The density of this plan is good... there is the potential that people employed in nearby busines parks would choose this location for a residence... there is potential to help cut down on long distance commuting. I am looking forward to seeing some elevation renderings of this proposal!

 

[canarob]

Most people in the 416 already live in the suburbs.

What I meant was that a lot of people still move from condos and townhomes in the city to houses in the 905, usually when they have kids. I'm not saying everyone does this, that you can't raise a child downtown, or anything else, just that it is still a common enough occurrence these days.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

this is a huge development to be sure. I am glad that atleast they decided to leave some park area and valley land instead of just paving the whole thing flat. I think we all realize that this land would be developed eventually. What other visions are out there? Would we wait another 30 - 50 years until there is enough mass to justify another business park? I dont think so. The density of this plan is good... there is the potential that people employed in nearby busines parks would choose this location for a residence... there is potential to help cut down on long distance commuting. I am looking forward to seeing some elevation renderings of this proposal!

It's not just residences: hundreds of thousands - probably millions - of square feet of office parks are being built in the Markham Centre area right along side the condos.

 

[Urbanmii]

Many of the projects in the area have retail at the bottom. Majestic Court for example supposedly has retail at the bottom. The Eko project has retail, office and residence within the same area. Tridel Circa is all within walking distance of all these projects and the existing Markham Town Centre (futue shop plaza). I do agree it may not be the most public transit friendly or pedestrian friendly like Downtown Toronto, but they are at the beginning of their vision. You dont necessary have to have "drive" everywhere for the necessities..

 

[Redroom Studios]

It's not just residences: hundreds of thousands - probably millions - of square feet of office parks are being built in the Markham Centre area right along side the condos.

oh, I guess I am not up to date with what's happening in that area... guess I havent been over that way in nearly 15 years. But now youve got me interested to have a look. Does scouting trips count against all those long distance commutes I was hoping they'd be saving?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

if "Downtown Markham" is in any way successful (I still have my doubts about this) then that's exactly what it will provide, a comprise - parts of two dissimilar worlds, intertwined to satisfy anyone who isn't 100% set on exactly what they want.

I also have doubts...which is natural because they've barely started building it. If Downtown Markham was located along #7, I'd be almost assured of success. As it is now, it could be no more than an office park, a 'residence park,' actual parks, and a lifestyle centre.

Whatever it is intended to be, it's still too soon to tell who will live there and if they will live urban lives, suburban lives, or something in between. Perhaps there'll be lots of retirees. Perhaps there'll be lots of [non-yuppie] young teachers, nurses, software company employees, etc., who work in the suburbs and are just entering the housing market (but this depends entirely on the price of the condos since south Markham has houses beginning in the $300s and north Scarborough has houses begininng in the $200s). Perhaps a majority of the condo units will be specuvestments and will be rented out to random people. It's not always possible to build a trendy/vibrant urban area without yuppies and bohemians, and will these people be living in Markham? Until it's done, we won't know how far their actual lives may be from the rhetoric of developers and city officials.

 

[adma]

Maybe a la Rick Caruso and The Grove in LA...

 

[scarberiankhatru]

A very real question is: would a Carusoesque centre still work if the local population is made up almost entirely of Asian grandmothers? I can see Downtown Markham Centre getting a first wave of retail/amenities that turns out to be not in synch with who actually ends up living there, and then a second wave rolls in a few years later.

Though, in their defence, seniors probably would make use of Downtown Markham Centre more for the quaintness (this is Markham) and pedestrian scale than as a base for nearby jobs and good highway access.

 

[adma]

At the risk of stereotyping, the proverbial "Asian grandmother" might go for a Caruso-type centre (or at least, Carusoesque trappings) in the same way they're inclined t/w casino excursions to Niagara Falls, etc. A prefab tourist-like experience right in their own backyard, so to speak...