Politics: Tim Hudak's Plan for Ontario if he becomes Premier

[Palma]

Show us where he has said that he would cancel Eglinton.

Straight from the Ontario PC website:

http://ontariopc.com/files/cities-white-paper.pdf



Burying the Eglinton Crosstown as much as possible. That's not cancelling it.

And for all intends and purposes, since the LRT is underground in the middle section, there are people that call it a subway. Perhaps he wants to be ambigious

 

[Palma]

He'll kill Sheppard and Finch to bury Eglinton

But won;t that just give himj enough money to convert the central underground LRT to subway? I doubt he would have enough money to bury the entire line

 

[Palma]

How are you awarding those though... I mean the Crosstown started construction under Ford, so why was it awarded to Miller? I'm just curious on the methodology here.

I do not think it should be awarded to anyone until complete. Say Hudack cancels it and in another 8 years, someone else gets into power and actually restarts Eglinton and completes it, they shoudl be the one who gets the credit.

 

[Solid Snake]

But won;t that just give himj enough money to convert the central underground LRT to subway? I doubt he would have enough money to bury the entire line

he wants to bury the line. I'm not convinced that he cares about the type of vehicles operating under Eglinton, just like Rob Ford din't care either. Killing both Sheppard and Finch would bury the line from Kennedy to Mount Dennis.

If you switch to HRT trains, we'll be charged penalties unless perhaps the purchase of HRT trains matches or exceeds the value of the LRT by (of course) using Bombardier without going through a new bidding process (this is usually sorted out through negociations)...*pure speculation*

Like I said, I doubt he cares what train runs underground.

 

[TOareaFan]

I do not think it should be awarded to anyone until complete. Say Hudack cancels it and in another 8 years, someone else gets into power and actually restarts Eglinton and completes it, they shoudl be the one who gets the credit.

for all intents and purposes, I think that is what The TigerMaster is doing in his unofficial scorecard (now that we understand his method....we really don't need to keep debating this...do we?)

 

[Palma]

for all intents and purposes, I think that is what The TigerMaster is doing in his unofficial scorecard (now that we understand his method....we really don't need to keep debating this...do we?)

Well, I respond to a post when i see it since there were 5 pages for me to read through instead of waiting till reading all 6 pages and then trying to find the post

 

[GenerationW]

It's in the white paper, that he wants to bury eglinton (why?) and complete sheppard. And based your recent posts, you seem interested in following posters around the board. That is what you're doing right?

No idea what that last part is about.

So it was in a white paper. Theory doesn't always become actual policy. Now we're in an actual campaign where one of Hudak's main goals is to balance the budget within three (?) years, and he also said GO expansion and the DRL would be his priorities once the transit money flowed again, whenever that might be. In the face of that, finishing Sheppard and a fully buried HRT Eglinton line from Pearson to Kennedy would be dead in the water.

Well this should be an election issue then, that Hudak wants to cancel or postpone the Eglinton Line.

Yes, it should be. The other leaders should press Hudak about his intentions regarding Eglinton.

I suspect he wouldn't cancel it altogether and fill in yet another hole on Eglinton, but I also doubt he'd finish it all the way to Kennedy. Don Mills? Yonge?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

So it was in a white paper. Theory doesn't always become actual policy. Now we're in an actual campaign where one of Hudak's main goals is to balance the budget within three (?) years, and he also said GO expansion and the DRL would be his priorities once the transit money flowed again, whenever that might be. In the face of that, finishing Sheppard and a fully buried HRT Eglinton line from Pearson to Kennedy would be dead in the water.

So then why did you attribute that to me then? If he said that, then he said that yes? Regardless if he gets elected, we won't see anything until 2019 at the earliest if he actually does not care about transit as much as people here claim.

Yes, it should be. The other leaders should press Hudak about his intentions regarding Eglinton.

I suspect he wouldn't cancel it altogether and fill in yet another hole on Eglinton, but I also doubt he'd finish it all the way to Kennedy. Don Mills? Yonge?

He said he wants to bury the entire line as currently configured. That means underground LRT or subway, Mt Dennis-Kennedy. (at least)

 

[MrsNesbitt]

He said he wants to bury the entire line as currently configured. That means underground LRT or subway, Mt Dennis-Kennedy. (at least)

Yeah, that's real fiscally conservative alright.

Hudak is ridiculous. Then again, it's not like he'll actually get any of this transit built. I would bet dollars to donuts that he would just put it off until the budget is balanced to excuse his doing nothing.

 

[Solid Snake]

Yeah, that's real fiscally conservative alright.

Hudak is ridiculous. Then again, it's not like he'll actually get any of this transit built. I would bet dollars to donuts that he would just put it off until the budget is balanced to excuse his doing nothing.

Eglinton Crosstown won't be stopped. It's too far along and like any politician, the goal is to stay in power as long as possible. He knows full well that public transit is a HUGE issue to Torontonians and another betrayal on Eglinton would be the end for his re-election dreams. He will hack and slash in social programs way before touching the transit file in Toronto. For the first time (which is shocking), he just realized that he can't be Premier without Toronto. Why do you think he said the DRL would be built after the budget is balanced? If he balances the budget in 3 years, the studies for phase 1 and possibly phase II will be completed, right on time for the beginning of construction. Even if he wanted to get the line built tomorrow, it would be impossible without those studies.

Also, I too have my fair of doubts towards Tim Hudak but I trust Doug Holiday on the transit file to stay the course. I could see him quit in disgust if Hudak backtracked on his promise.

The line is already budgeted for as are Finch and Sheppard so far. By redirecting the funds to Eglinton, he just buried the entire line right there (although elevating the east portion would have allowed for more rapid transit going west of Mount Dennis)

This is a theme that keeps coming back here so let me slow down things a little bit... Since when the "right" was anti-transit??? So the Tube was only built by Liberals in the UK? Have there ever been a left wing president in the USA while they embarrass us in public transit??? The Ontario PC never funded transit, ever??? Hell, even Harper is writing cheques for transit. Does he care about transit? Probably not but infrastructure investments was needed and thus the program funded transit plans across the country. There's no such thing as right or left on the transit file. There's only a different view on the matter. If there's one thing the right does very often is to spend on INFRASTRUCTURE . For the right, it's a mean to stimulate the economy, create jobs and increase productivity. They would rather spend on infrastructure than on social programs (see NDP with a total lack of transit plan) while the Liberals at the centre have tried to balanced the 2 items as much as they could.

It's funny to see this forum traumatized by Harris cancelling Eglinton Subway and irrationally believe that every PC leader will kill transit in the future. Yes Hudak was part of that government and yes he might be worshipping in an hidden room a self made idol of Mike Harris but Harris was the one to call the shots, not him. Harris is one man, he's not the living embodiment of the right.

I really don't see why he would turn around and cancel everything on the transit file all of a sudden. Like his plan says, he will pretty much go to war with Ontario public service and social programs. Yes it's a major shift in ideology and to the right, but it's not incompatible with transit expansion. It's a major infrastructure expense aimed at stimulating the economy and creating jobs. Would Transit City accomplish that? Debatable but building the DRL ahead of everything else makes wayyyyy more sense which would transform Toronto forever once it opens...along with better and more GO Trains to change the face of the GTA...more so than 2 LRT lines in suburban Toronto.

And if I'm wrong, then he'll betray us all, Holiday will quit, and Toronto will rather become it's own province than vote PC ever again and Hudak will be out of a job in 2018. He might be an empty uncharismatic (I'd rather have a beer with Harper than him) shell but the man's not an idiot.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yeah, that's real fiscally conservative alright.

Hudak is ridiculous. Then again, it's not like he'll actually get any of this transit built. I would bet dollars to donuts that he would just put it off until the budget is balanced to excuse his doing nothing.

He honestly will "delay" everything, which is what I expect to happen.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Eglinton Crosstown won't be stopped. It's too far along and like any politician, the goal is to stay in power as long as possible. He knows full well that public transit is a HUGE issue to Torontonians and another betrayal on Eglinton would be the end for his re-election dreams. He will hack and slash in social programs way before touching the transit file in Toronto. For the first time (which is shocking), he just realized that he can't be Premier without Toronto. Why do you think he said the DRL would be built after the budget is balanced? If he balances the budget in 3 years, the studies for phase 1 and possibly phase II will be completed, right on time for the beginning of construction. Even if he wanted to get the line built tomorrow, it would be impossible without those studies.

Don't count on the Relief Line being built under a PC gov't.

Also, I too have my fair of doubts towards Tim Hudak but I trust Doug Holiday on the transit file to stay the course. I could see him quit in disgust if Hudak backtracked on his promise.

I am about 98% sure this won't bbe happeneing.

This is a theme that keeps coming back here so let me slow down things a little bit... Since when the "right" was anti-transit???

It's been like this since right-wing politicians in this province have started standing in the way of transportation development by insisting on only building underused underground rail rapid transit systems while ignoring the advise of all the professionals. The incredibly high cost of these systems (compared to above ground light rail) means that we will only be able deploy a fraction of the transit and move less people than we would be able to if we used light rail. This isn't just an anti-transit stance, it's anti fiscal conservative.

Unfortunately for the right-wing in this province, their only goal is pandering to auto drivers, even if that comes at the cost of more efficient transportation systems and true fiscal conservatism.

It's funny to see this forum traumatized by Harris cancelling Eglinton Subway and irrationally believe that every PC leader will kill transit in the future. Yes Hudak was part of that government and yes he might be worshipping in an hidden room a self made idol of Mike Harris but Harris was the one to call the shots, not him. Harris is one man, he's not the living embodiment of the right.

Are we talking about the same Tim Hudak? seems an awful lot like Harris.

And if I'm wrong, then he'll betray us all, Holiday will quit, and Toronto will rather become it's own province than vote PC ever again

And how do you expect Toronto to become it's own province? Not that's its something I'm against. Toronto would clearly be better off without Ontario.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

It's funny to see this forum traumatized by Harris cancelling Eglinton Subway and irrationally believe that every PC leader will kill transit in the future. Yes Hudak was part of that government and yes he might be worshipping in an hidden room a self made idol of Mike Harris but Harris was the one to call the shots, not him. Harris is one man, he's not the living embodiment of the right.

I really don't see why he would turn around and cancel everything on the transit file all of a sudden. Like his plan says, he will pretty much go to war with Ontario public service and social programs. Yes it's a major shift in ideology and to the right, but it's not incompatible with transit expansion. It's a major infrastructure expense aimed at stimulating the economy and creating jobs. Would Transit City accomplish that? Debatable but building the DRL ahead of everything else makes wayyyyy more sense which would transform Toronto forever once it opens...along with better and more GO Trains to change the face of the GTA...more so than 2 LRT lines in suburban Toronto.

These are fair points. A little perspective is perhaps warranted.
My responses would be:
a) Hudak has demonstrated a Ford-esque grasp of the issue, promoting subways and ignoring or shunning LRT and BRT, even to the point of telling Mississauga they can have a subway one day instead of an LRT now, when all they want is the LRT now.
b) He has said, if I understand correctly, that most of his grand plans will only come AFTER the budget has been balanced; so 3-4 years down the road.
c) He has shown little/no interest in the notion of The Big Move as a regional plan or of Metrolinx as a group of experts who could provide useful information. How many of those 100,000 "useless" jobs he cuts will be at Metrolinx, the Ontario Growth Secretariat etc.? Many, I'd guess.
d) He has talked, irresponsibly, about everything from eliminating Metrolinx to uploading the TTC over the past few years.
e) Harris aside, there is reason to be wary about what he will do with the triumvirate of Places to Grow, the Greenbelt and The Big Move.
f) You're right that infrastructure investment is not inherently out of wack with conservative ideals but there is little enthusiasm in Canadian conservatism these days for infrastructure-as-job-creator. It's hypocritical, but it's a fact. Harper did it because he had to and even then it was a short-term infrastructure-oriented jobs plan, not the other way around. If this wasn't the case, he'd be implementing a national transit plan because ongoing infrastructure investment is a major stimulus factor, as he showed all by his lonesome. But he hasn't, because he doesn't want to.

So, people shouldn't be losing their minds about this stuff, but there is certainly some room for skepticism if not outright fear.

 

[StatGeek]

Not sure if I should put this in Ford thread or here. But I thought it was funny

Talk about St Clair disaster

Hudak bus on Sunday blocking traffic in Yonge and St. Clair area via twitter.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

These are fair points. A little perspective is perhaps warranted.
My responses would be:
a) Hudak has demonstrated a Ford-esque grasp of the issue, promoting subways and ignoring or shunning LRT and BRT, even to the point of telling Mississauga they can have a subway one day instead of an LRT now, when all they want is the LRT now.
b) He has said, if I understand correctly, that most of his grand plans will only come AFTER the budget has been balanced; so 3-4 years down the road.
c) He has shown little/no interest in the notion of The Big Move as a regional plan or of Metrolinx as a group of experts who could provide useful information. How many of those 100,000 "useless" jobs he cuts will be at Metrolinx, the Ontario Growth Secretariat etc.? Many, I'd guess.
d) He has talked, irresponsibly, about everything from eliminating Metrolinx to uploading the TTC over the past few years.
e) Harris aside, there is reason to be wary about what he will do with the triumvirate of Places to Grow, the Greenbelt and The Big Move.
f) You're right that infrastructure investment is not inherently out of wack with conservative ideals but there is little enthusiasm in Canadian conservatism these days for infrastructure-as-job-creator. It's hypocritical, but it's a fact. Harper did it because he had to and even then it was a short-term infrastructure-oriented jobs plan, not the other way around. If this wasn't the case, he'd be implementing a national transit plan because ongoing infrastructure investment is a major stimulus factor, as he showed all by his lonesome. But he hasn't, because he doesn't want to.

So, people shouldn't be losing their minds about this stuff, but there is certainly some room for skepticism if not outright fear.

I don't think outright fear is unwarranted. I can say for certain that if there's a PC majority I'll have a few restless nights worrying about what they'll do to our city.