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Politics: Tim Hudak's Plan for Ontario if he becomes Premier

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Solid Snake said:
he should elevate Eglinton East. Changing technology now would be a mistake and LRT would work if the trains were elevated
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Perhaps now, but if this was to be the design at the beginning then subway trains would be best. The real savings by designing to light rail standards is the ability to operate at grade with fewer headaches due to overhead wires. In fact, tunneling light rail tends to be more expensive than tunneling for subways because the latter doesn't need the extra space for the wires. If the route was to be entirely grade separated, then it makes little sense not to go with subways.

Of course, we could always use dual-mode trains which switch between third rail and overhead wires, making the whole dichotomy mute.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I'm saying it should end at Eglinton at both ends for phase one.





He mentioned the DRL separately. the East West line is not the DRL.
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Perhaps he meant by east/west, eglinton subway which then turns south on both ends, Bloor in the west and Danforth in the east? I am not have finished seeing the whole youtube video but it is confusing saying DRL and then east west subway
 
rbt said:
The whole electrified frequent GO-Rex service was a Metrolinx concept prior to the merger with GO. At that time GO seemed to think it was overkill.
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Yes, I suppose. Then again, this GO-Rex service has been the most inchoate project to date. Until Murray trotted out his recent campaign announcement, the actual details of what will be electrified, when it will happen, how frequently trains will run, where they will stop and how they will integrate with existing transit have been pretty vague.

That we get back to Murray making outlandish promises (4 trains to Niagara an hour? really?) just get's back to the problem of politicians using Metrolinx as a stamp of legitimacy for whatever their current campaign promise is.
 
Palma said:
Perhaps he meant by east/west, eglinton subway which then turns south on both ends, Bloor in the west and Danforth in the east? I am not have finished seeing the whole youtube video but it is confusing saying DRL and then east west subway
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Apparently he meant the DRL after all. Hudak needs to be clear with what he is saying.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
The whole TTC should be taken by the province. That's the only way this is going to work.
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I don't want the transit system I rely on put in the hands of a government that may not (and certainly doesn't need to) win any seats in the 416. The people who say these kinds of things seem way out of touch with what's going on in the rest of the province - especially re: the Tories' base. Despite the bluster, Tim Hudak needs the Landowner-type more than the transit rider-type, and he will govern accordingly. Have no illusions about that.

I can't imagine a TTC without a local mandate, without priorities set by the elected representatives of the people of Toronto and only the people of Toronto. How are we to hold the TTC accountable for, say, slashed service and rapidly rising fares in an uploaded system? Transit riders are a small percentage of Ontario residents, possibly even smaller among Ontario voters (on account of the minors and non-citizens who disproportionately take transit). We cannot afford to have our voices diluted by cut-happy out-of-towners who will never suffer the direct consequences of terrible transit service. As for the indirect consequences? Well, these are the same myopic would-be deficit-slayers who are proposing to gut the educational system and environmental protections - which would certainly seem to suggest an inability to see anything big picture or long term.
 
nfitz said:
WHEN? When they were built. The 1900s, 1910s, 1920, 1930s, 1940s ...

It's only after the car and Chicago started to sprawl, that property values started to drop, and were purchased by the poor, leading those that could to flee.

Keeping tight zoning controls, and limiting growth keeps downtown and near-downtown areas healthy.

Though I fear if urban sprawl was to be allowed in Toronto these days, given travel times, etc., that it wouldn't be the downtown and inner-downtown areas that would turn into the ghettos. But the outer 416 and inner 905 neighbourhoods. Brampton ... building the ghettos of tomorrow.

Would Hudak lead to this ... perhaps not ... but more so because of the geographic constraints than anything else.
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why are people talking about this racial stuff in the U.S? Its not what this forum re: Hudack is about. There are posts about the racial stuff in between the transit Hudack is proposing and it becomes irritating
 
sixrings said:
Rob fords campaign was "cut the gravy, cut the gravy, cut the gravy, cut the gravy, cut the gravy, cut the gravy, cut the gravy cut the gravy, cut the gravy, cut the gravy, and subways subways subways." for every ten times he mentioned cutting the gravy and reducing taxes he threw in making subways.
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I really do love how Ford supporters think of Ford as a subway champion and Miller as an anti-subway pro-LRT mayor. The reality couldn't be any more different.

More subways were built under Mayor Miller than Mayor Ford (0 km vs 21 km). Miller has built 21 km of subway, increasing the length of of Subway/RT system by 30%. Ford has built 0 km of subway, increasing the length of of Subway/RT system by 0%.

In fact, More subways were built under Miller than any other mayor in the history of the City of Toronto & Metro Toronto*. If these pro-subway Ford supporters want more subways, I strongly suggest they find Mr. Miller and beg him to run for Mayor again.

*This list was roughly compiled. It would be great if someone else were able to verify these. However I am 100% confident in my assertion that Miller built more subways than Ford (the point of this whole post).

Here's a list of subway projects built under each administration. If the project was approved and has successfully reached construction phase, I added it to the administration that the project was originally approved under. I think this is the most fair way to count it.

KM by administration in Toronto & Metro Toronto (completed, near completed or under construction)
Rob Ford (2010-2014): 0 km
David Miller (2003-2010): 21 km
Mel Lastman (Mayor of Toronto 1998-2003; Mayor of NY 1973-1997): 5 km (Sheppard Subway)
Barbara Hall (1994-1997): 0 km
June Rowlands (1991-1994): 3 km
Art Eggleton (1980 - 1991): 6.5 km
John Sewell (1978 - 1980): 0 km
David Crombie (1973 - 1978): 4 km
William Dennison (1967-1972): 15 km
Philip Givens (1963-1966): 16.5 km
Nathan Phillips (1955 - 1962): 15.5 km
Allan Lamport (1952-1954): 0 km
Hiram E. McCallum (1948-1951): 7km

Ranked by total km of new subway
1. David Miller (2003-2010): 21 km
2. Philip Givens (1963-1966): 16.5 km
3. Nathan Phillips (1955 - 1962): 15.5 km
4. Hiram E. McCallum (1948-1951): 7km
5. Art Eggleton (1980 - 1991): 6.5 km
6. Mel Lastman (Mayor of Toronto 1998-2003; Mayor of NY 1973-1997): 5 km
7. David Crombie (1973 - 1978): 4 km
8. June Rowlands (1991-1994): 3 km
9. Rob Ford (2010-2014): 0 km
9. Barbara Hall (1994-1997): 0 km
9. John Sewell (1978 - 1980): 0 km
9. Allan Lamport (1952-1954): 0 km
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
I really do love how Ford supporters think of Ford as a subway champion and Miller as an anti-subway pro-LRT mayor. The reality couldn't be any more different.

More subways were built under Mayor Miller than Mayor Ford (0 km vs 21 km). In fact, More subways were probably built under Miller than any other mayor in the history of the City of Toronto & Metro Toronto. I say 'probably' because it was impossible to find exact dates of when all the subway projects were approved. But the list I've compiled should be accurate enough. Regardless, the point is that anti-subway Miller built 21 km of subway while Ford built ZERO.

Km of subways under each administration in Toronto & Metro Toronto (completed, near completed or under construction)
Rob Ford (2010-2014): 0 km
David Miller (2003-2010): 21.1 km
Mel Lastman (Mayor of Toronto 1998-2003; Mayor of NY 1973-1997): 5 km (Sheppard Subway)
Barbara Hall (1994-1997): 0 km
June Rowlands (1991-1994): 2.8 km
Art Eggleton (1980 - 1991): 6.4 km
John Sewell (1978 - 1980): 0 km
David Crombie (1973 - 1978): 4 km
William Dennison (1967-1972): 15 km
Philip Givens (1963-1966): 16.5 kmjk
Nathan Phillips (1955 - 1962): 15.5 km
Allan Lamport (1952-1954): 0 km
Hiram E. McCallum (1948-1951): 7km

Organized by length
1. David Miller (2003-2010): 21.1 km
2. Philip Givens (1963-1966): 16.5 km
3. Nathan Phillips (1955 - 1962): 15.5 km
4. Hiram E. McCallum (1948-1951): 7km
5. Mel Lastman (Mayor of Toronto 1998-2003; Mayor of NY 1973-1997): 5 km
6. Art Eggleton (1980 - 1991): 6.4 km
7. David Crombie (1973 - 1978): 4 km
8. June Rowlands (1991-1994): 2.8 km
9. Rob Ford (2010-2014): 0 km
9. Barbara Hall (1994-1997): 0 km
9. John Sewell (1978 - 1980): 0 km
9. Allan Lamport (1952-1954): 0 km
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How did you get 21 km for Miller?
 
andrewpmk said:
I presume you count underground LRT as "subway"?
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I, and most transit authorities in the world, would count the central portion of Eglinton as metro without debate.

However, if you want, just keep Miller's tally to 8.6km for the Spadina extension.
 
ehlow said:
How are you awarding those though... I mean the Crosstown started construction under Ford, so why was it awarded to Miller? I'm just curious on the methodology here.
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The ECLRT was originally approved under Miller's TC plan. We all know that Ford didn't support the project and tried unsuccessfully to kill and then modify Miller's plan. It would be difficult to attribute the project to Ford.
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
You seriously think underground LRT aren't subways? I presume it's because of their use of light rail vehicles that you're thinking this.

Light rail vehicles and "subway" cars are essentially identical.

If it's size you're concerned about, the LRVs on the ECLRT are larger than subway cars in metros around the world.
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99% of people in the city will call the underground part a subway for sure, because to most people underground = subway.
 
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