Politics: Tim Hudak's Plan for Ontario if he becomes Premier

[ksun]

Cut 100,000 jobs, eliminate 100,000 commuters. Gridlock solved!

except those are public sector jobs, many of which involving doing nothing but browsing internet and chatting 70% of the time.
those "jobs" don't create any wealth in Ontario, except wasting all taxpayers' money. They are not real "jobs".

I work frequently with OPG. Do you know how bloated this organization is, how many "managers" with $150K+ salaries and how little they actually do? It is all from your pocket, friend, and you seem to sympathize their "jobs". I am even talking about agencies which don't even have a clear mandate.

cutting jobs might sound bad, but those artificial jobs should not have existed in the first place.

 

[sno man]

except those are public sector jobs, many of which involving doing nothing but browsing internet and chatting 70% of the time.
those "jobs" don't create any wealth in Ontario, except wasting all taxpayers' money. They are not real "jobs".

I work frequently with OPG. Do you know how bloated this organization is, how many "managers" with $150K+ salaries and how little they actually do? It is all from your pocket, friend, and you seem to sympathize their "jobs". I am even talking about agencies which don't even have a clear mandate.

cutting jobs might sound bad, but those artificial jobs should not have existed in the first place.

Splitting up hydro was a Harris idea and only managed to about a triple the bureaucracy. The whole hydro thing is a mess top to bottom and really needs to be dealt with all by it's self, but there are some big Con backers on those boards, really enjoying their slice of the pie. Hydro collectively is not where very many, if any, of Hudak's 100k firings are going to come from.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

except those are public sector jobs, many of which involving doing nothing but browsing internet and chatting 70% of the time.
those "jobs" don't create any wealth in Ontario, except wasting all taxpayers' money. They are not real "jobs".

I work frequently with OPG. Do you know how bloated this organization is, how many "managers" with $150K+ salaries and how little they actually do? It is all from your pocket, friend, and you seem to sympathize their "jobs". I am even talking about agencies which don't even have a clear mandate.

cutting jobs might sound bad, but those artificial jobs should not have existed in the first place.

Well, then, I'm curious what percentage of the broader public sector you feel consists of "not real" jobs, based on your scientific evaluations to date, I mean.

Really, I don't put much stock in your assessment that "many" public sector jobs are at least 70% "fake." Particularly since it implies that certainly no private sector organization would overload at the management level or have employees browsing the Itnernet etc. Or maybe the latter doesn't matter since it's not on your dime.

Either way, I'd remind you (and Tim Hudak) that these aren't just abstract "jobs," they are human beings supporting families. you may be right that OPG and other bodies can trim some fat, but remember everyone of these "useless jobs" you eliminate forces a person out into unemployment and maybe "we" are better off if that overpaid $150K manager is "appropriately" relegated to some private sector job better suited to his apparent lack of skills, but you might want to consider the broad implications of that theory.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Seems that Hudak is making promises that a mayoralty candidate would be making. Next, he'll make promises that he'll reduce the public service employees by closing fire stations.

I really can't understand why Hudak thinks it's his place to tell munis what to do with. His party clearly doesn't have much respect for municipal government.

 

[Electrify]

Well, then, I'm curious what percentage of the broader public sector you feel consists of "not real" jobs, based on your scientific evaluations to date, I mean.

Really, I don't put much stock in your assessment that "many" public sector jobs are at least 70% "fake." Particularly since it implies that certainly no private sector organization would overload at the management level or have employees browsing the Itnernet etc. Or maybe the latter doesn't matter since it's not on your dime.

Either way, I'd remind you (and Tim Hudak) that these aren't just abstract "jobs," they are human beings supporting families. you may be right that OPG and other bodies can trim some fat, but remember everyone of these "useless jobs" you eliminate forces a person out into unemployment and maybe "we" are better off if that overpaid $150K manager is "appropriately" relegated to some private sector job better suited to his apparent lack of skills, but you might want to consider the broad implications of that theory.

To play the devil's advocate, there are probably some jobs which can be cut and some streamlining of government organizations which could save taxpayers a lot of money. HOWEVER what Hudak is doing is trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Cutting 100,000 jobs, using the money saved to give corporations a tax break, leading to (*raises pinky*) 1 MILLION new jobs is the kind of one dimensional zero thought bullcrap which helped to get Rob Ford elected.

If you want to create new jobs here, probably the best thing would be to invest in entrepreneurial training programs and new business grants. That way people could literally create jobs rather than wait for them to be handed out to them by corporations.

 

[TOareaFan]

Really, I don't put much stock in your assessment that "many" public sector jobs are at least 70% "fake." Particularly since it implies that certainly no private sector organization would overload at the management level or have employees browsing the Itnernet etc. Or maybe the latter doesn't matter since it's not on your dime.

Not sure that pointing out there are efficiencies available in the public sector says anything, or should say anything, about the private sector. In the end, it is the owners/shareholders/wage payers that should decide if they are getting the most bang for their buck from their workforce.....in the public sector that is "us".

Either way, I'd remind you (and Tim Hudak) that these aren't just abstract "jobs," they are human beings supporting families. you may be right that OPG and other bodies can trim some fat, but remember everyone of these "useless jobs" you eliminate forces a person out into unemployment and maybe "we" are better off if that overpaid $150K manager is "appropriately" relegated to some private sector job better suited to his apparent lack of skills, but you might want to consider the broad implications of that theory.

The flip side to this is that we continue to employ people regardless of the state of the treasury and regardless of the contribution they make. There are, of course, broad implications of that theory too.

 

[GenerationW]

I really can't understand why Hudak thinks it's his place to tell munis what to do with. His party clearly doesn't have much respect for municipal government.

Good thing McGuinty didn't make it his place to dictate to Toronto what subway project they decided we should build a decade ago......no wait.

 

[Translude15]

Well, then, I'm curious what percentage of the broader public sector you feel consists of "not real" jobs, based on your scientific evaluations to date, I mean.

Really, I don't put much stock in your assessment that "many" public sector jobs are at least 70% "fake." Particularly since it implies that certainly no private sector organization would overload at the management level or have employees browsing the Itnernet etc. Or maybe the latter doesn't matter since it's not on your dime.

Either way, I'd remind you (and Tim Hudak) that these aren't just abstract "jobs," they are human beings supporting families. you may be right that OPG and other bodies can trim some fat, but remember everyone of these "useless jobs" you eliminate forces a person out into unemployment and maybe "we" are better off if that overpaid $150K manager is "appropriately" relegated to some private sector job better suited to his apparent lack of skills, but you might want to consider the broad implications of that theory.

I have my qualms with Hudak but one (subjective) example comes to mind that relates to ksun's post. The parents of one of my girlfriend's friends both work for the WSIB. A new secretary position opened up recently that pays $55,000 a year plus benefits. A secretary position isn't worth 55 k a year in any industry but hey I guess these aren't "abstract" jobs we're dealing with. It's not that these people shouldn't be unemployed for possessing said padded government job, but many salaries tend to be excessive and unjustified for the job itself.

 

[taal]

hmm, one thing is clear, Hudak won't win a majority, and I cannot see the liberals or ndp supporting 100K in job cuts from the public sector ... unless its done little year by year (in the sense that year 1 => oh we'll only cut 20K ... then next year try the same ..). Wonder what the stradegy will be.

 

[TOareaFan]

hmm, one thing is clear, Hudak won't win a majority, and I cannot see the liberals or ndp supporting 100K in job cuts from the public sector ... unless its done little year by year (in the sense that year 1 => oh we'll only cut 20K ... then next year try the same ..). Wonder what the stradegy will be.

How are you so sure that the Hudak led PC party will not win a majority? It's early days yet, but the last few polls have them trending in that direction...so much so that threehundredeight.com are actually discussing what it would take to get there.

http://www.threehundredeight.com/2014/05/will-turnout-give-pcs-majority.html

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

hmm, one thing is clear, Hudak won't win a majority, and I cannot see the liberals or ndp supporting 100K in job cuts from the public sector ... unless its done little year by year (in the sense that year 1 => oh we'll only cut 20K ... then next year try the same ..). Wonder what the stradegy will be.

I don't think that's clear. The last poll showed him surging and there's a few weeks to go, still. Anything could happen though I'd bet on a Lib or PC minority, if I had to.

I guess my main point about Hudak's proposal is that the 100K number is obviously something he pulled out of his butt because it sounds good. (One could say the same of "1 Million Jobs,"obviously). It's not based on a nuanced analysis of the public sector and where it can and can't be trimmed. He can't roll back padded salaries (though he'd like to break the unions and make it happen, I'm sure)...it's wielding an axe rather than a scalpel and that makes me wary, right off the top. Maybe those people weren't going to vote for him anyway and it's a calculated move but if I worked anywhere in the public sector (especially if I had a job that pays me too much and allows me to surf the web 70% of the day), I couldn't possibly vote for him, rolling the dice I'll be one of the people to survive the purge. Some will anyway, of course. It's hard to imagine a single kindergarten teacher voting for him either but, again, I'm sure he calculate he can lose that vote to win others.

Also, no offence to anyone here, but everyone's got some story of some public servant they know with a too-cozy gig or maybe they know the one guy who scams welfare or something. Neither says anything about the broader system. Hudak's talking about everyone except health and OPP which means, for example, lawyers who have chosen to take a pay cut to work for the province. And you don't have to be Kreskin to guess it will hit hardest in ministries like MOE or Municipal Affairs, with all their liberal/Liberal-driven ideals. (Also, broadly speaking, this is the cycle: someone comes in and guts things and someone else builds it up again. I'd say that's just the circle of life, except that it's far easier to destroy than to build; that's why we're only just starting on the Eglinton Crosstown now).

 

[sno man]

hmm, one thing is clear, Hudak won't win a majority, and I cannot see the liberals or ndp supporting 100K in job cuts from the public sector ... unless its done little year by year (in the sense that year 1 => oh we'll only cut 20K ... then next year try the same ..). Wonder what the stradegy will be.

LCBO would be just a little under 60k of the 100k in one shot *poof* easy-peasy.
Never mind that the LCBO actually MAKES money, over and above the associated taxes. The one note, immediate payoff for selling it is all the Cons ever see, oh and the 'think of all the savings not having to pay those 60k people'... is as far as he ever seems to think things though they never looking at both sides of the ledger. The profit, (beyond taxes received) apparently is better in the hands of someone other than the province. Reducing provincial revenue, he will need to actually cut some something else just because he cut the LCBO, to balance the books. Can he do that with a minority? Maybe not, but it's on his wish list.

 

[spider]

Either way, I'd remind you (and Tim Hudak) that these aren't just abstract "jobs," they are human beings supporting families. you may be right that OPG and other bodies can trim some fat, but remember everyone of these "useless jobs" you eliminate forces a person out into unemployment and maybe "we" are better off if that overpaid $150K manager is "appropriately" relegated to some private sector job better suited to his apparent lack of skills, but you might want to consider the broad implications of that theory.

Maybe the solution is for everyone to work for the government earning great salaries doing each others laundry. We don't need no stinking industry or production of goods, everything we need will given to us by the laundry guys. Sweet.

 

[SJD_Toronto]

hmm, one thing is clear, Hudak won't win a majority, and I cannot see the liberals or ndp supporting 100K in job cuts from the public sector ... unless its done little year by year (in the sense that year 1 => oh we'll only cut 20K ... then next year try the same ..). Wonder what the stradegy will be.

A PC majority could be within striking distance if the polls hold up in the Tories favour until election day.

http://www.threehundredeight.com/p/ontario.html

 

[taal]

Yep I've seen the recent polls but I still think a majority will be very very difficult for them. But anything is possible.

60K from the LCBO would be an easy sell in theory, in the sense that it gets him close to the 100K .. but really none of these will be lost jobs.


I know folks who work for the government ... e-health related .. yes I know ... believe it or not (coming from the private sector, IT) the experience so far is there is real work being done, with stringent timelines just like the private sector.


So I think any sizable cuts will drastically impact the city of Toronto (just like Ottawa is feeling the pain right now) as many of these jobs are located in downtown Toronto.