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Politics: Tim Hudak's Plan for Ontario if he becomes Premier

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nfitz said:
So even if Hudak meets his promise of cutting taxes and eliminating the deficit by 2019, then the best we can hope for is restarting subway construction then. And yet the next election (presuming we don't elect a minority government) will be October 2018. So even by his own admission he'd go into the 2018 election with no progression on transit?

How much will filling in Eglinton cost this time?
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Good Question, I don't know. I hope it does not come to that!
ehlow said:
It actually doesn't include design if you look at any of underground subways built in Toronto recently (which I cited Sheppard and Spadina extension), or the DRL which from Danforth to King & University is expected to take 15 years.

You can also look at the Eglinton underground section which will take 8 years optimistically and the construction is the same as an underground subway.

I know BurlOak will immediately respond that we should use elevated everywhere, but common, most people mean underground when they talk about subways in Toronto and all subways built recently and subways planned like the DRL would be tunnelled underground. I don't see this changing.
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I do. Cut and cover is efficiency. Eglinton is already along, but do you want them to wast 10 years building Sheppard East if it becomes a subway?

rbt said:
That was related to part b) making the money flow.

They ran up against a debt wall (directly related to the 2008 recession). I wasn't happy; thought Sheppard was a better project than most of the small-time maintenance stuff in the Canada Economic Action Plan.
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Me Neither, but the mini depresson is almost over and they could have started to prevent Hudak from cancelling it.
 
sixrings said:
There will always be people who will be against transit because it costs taxes, because it rips up the roads which they want to drive on, because for some people they know that by the time its built they wont benefit from it but only their children or grandchildren will.
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That's another solid thing about the recent regional rail improvements Liberals wanted to do. It doesn't rip up nearly as many roads, it isn't terribly expensive (1/10th the cost per km of subway) and some parts could be ready in 5 years.

Do those first and see where travel patterns settle for a few years then build out local transit to those regional stations based on demand.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I do. Cut and cover is efficiency. Eglinton is already along, but do you want them to wast 10 years building Sheppard East if it becomes a subway?
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If cut & cover is such an amazing technique that will allow subways to be built cheap & fast, then why does virtually all tunnel construction happen with TBMs? 2nd Ave Subway in NYC, they are using TBM. Why don't they use cut & cover if it's so much cheaper & faster?

Yonge between Eg & Union was built cut & cover 60 years ago but all tunnels I know of are built using TBM anytime recently.
 
ehlow said:
If cut & cover is such an amazing technique that will allow subways to be built cheap & fast, then why does virtually all tunnel construction happen with TBMs? 2nd Ave Subway in NYC, they are using TBM. Why don't they use cut & cover if it's so much cheaper & faster?

Yonge between Eg & Union was built cut & cover 60 years ago but all tunnels I know of are built using TBM anytime recently.
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Because although it may be cheaper it would be even worse for drivers during construction which makes it a political non starter. Again politics.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Let's be honest. We are at a crisis point in the GTHA. We have the worse commute in the world. Not Ontario. Not Canada. The world. Worse then Paris, Tokyo and New York City. It's not 1995 where gas was at an all time low and people could drive for nothing. Hudak will face a lot of angry people in 2018 if there is not at least significant construction on something palatable. Hudak will come out with a map full of subways and I expect Eglinton to be a subway and Sheppard East to be built at a minimum. All the LRT's will be canceled to get this done. GO Service will either stay the same or expand, angry commuters.
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Worse than Hyderabad, Bangkok, or Jakarta?

To be fair, Toronto has the worst commute times in the developed world.
 
ehlow said:
If cut & cover is such an amazing technique that will allow subways to be built cheap & fast, then why does virtually all tunnel construction happen with TBMs? 2nd Ave Subway in NYC, they are using TBM. Why don't they use cut & cover if it's so much cheaper & faster?

Yonge between Eg & Union was built cut & cover 60 years ago but all tunnels I know of are built using TBM anytime recently.
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sixrings said:
Because although it may be cheaper it would be even worse for drivers during construction which makes it a political non starter. Again politics.
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Exactly. Politics.


sixrings said:
They aren't against LRT they are against losing votes. And this is the problem, decent to solid plans derailed by politics.
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Bingo. I think if Hudak becomes premier at all the LRT's are gone. It has to be explained to Dugid and them that if the Liberals lose, so will they.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
What I am saying is that if Hudak wants the subways done like he claims, that's the only option. Like I said, the people in Scarborough should feel it if they want the subway.
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What you fail to understand is a lot of people are advocating for subways not because they want subways but because they know nothing will get built. There is no way cut and cover is ever going to happen again.
 
sixrings said:
What you fail to understand is a lot of people are advocating for subways not because they want subways but because they know nothing will get built. There is no way cut and cover is ever going to happen again.
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Yes a lot of people support subways because it either won't be built or if it is built then it inconveniences their car or theoretically disrupts traffic the least. Like Rob Ford for example. There's no way they would tolerate cut & cover. Look how much complaining is happening on Eglinton right now for TBM construction.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
That is also true, and in that case, Ontario gets what it deserves.
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I just don't understand why a transit advocate wouldn't take the lrt plan then to try and gamble for a subway plan. Personally I too would like subways everywhere but it's too risky a move. Instead I'm voting for the most realistic plan because I'd rather have that then nothing.
 
sixrings said:
I just don't understand why a transit advocate wouldn't take the lrt plan then to try and gamble for a subway plan. Personally I too would like subways everywhere but it's too risky a move. Instead I'm voting for the most realistic plan because I'd rather have that then nothing.
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Honestly, I support the LRT's, if my posts are different, it's because I'm trying to think of what hudak will do in his head.
 
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