Politics: Tim Hudak's Plan for Ontario if he becomes Premier

[rbt]

No offense taken I like debate . I should clarify and say that's what I think he will do. I think this because he realizes doing nothing is not an option, and he will have to spend, not too much but some, to alleviate the commute.


Yup it's a Toronto thing.

Sheppard LRT was on a schedule roughly like that. The original SRT -> LRT conversion was too. Neither got to the actual tendering of full construction; only the Sheppard railway underpass got built.

Actual construction runs at a reasonable pace. Toronto is slow to make a) decision (issue tenders) and b) make the money flow.

 

[BurlOak]

Why are you twisting facts? 4 years to build something that is fully engineered, perhaps. Design work on the Canada Line and Evergreen line both started in the 1980s.

Look back to the post. I was responding to: "Also someone said subways can be built in 4 years? It takes 8-10 years of construction usually."

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Also welfare and social benefits. Those thousands of students on minimum wage jobs will suffer too.

Hmm, really? The Progressive Conservatives killed a lot of Ontarians the last time they were elected. How many do you think they'll kill by cutting funding to the Health sector?

You two are older then me, so I'm sure you remember the hospital wars last time Mike Harris was around. nftiz you are correct, and expect it to happen again. Healthcare is the biggest cost in the province on a daily basis, and Hudak will look to bring it down.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Sheppard LRT was on a schedule roughly like that. The original SRT -> LRT conversion was too. Neither go to the actual tendering of full construction; only the Sheppard railway underpass got built.

Actual construction runs at a reasonable pace. Toronto is slow to make a) decision (issue tenders) and b) make the money flow.

Good Points. It's the bickering that makes things the worst. Sheppard should have been up and running last summer. We decided and the Liberals won't start for 3 years, what gives?

 

[BurlOak]

Oh yeah, some massive hits will be taken. Especially in the Health sector.

In the 1990's when the PC's made some cuts to Healthcare - it was due to significant reductions in transfers by the Chretien Liberals. And before Harris left, those cuts were restored from Provincial money.
Now Harper has agreed to long term transfers to healthcare (I believe it was 3% above inflation) so cuts are not a concern.

 

[sixrings]

Good Points. It's the bickering that makes things the worst. Sheppard should have been up and running last summer. We decided and the Liberals won't start for 3 years, what gives?

but it was the PCs (FORD) who started the bickering by promising they could build subways for nothing.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

You two are older then me, so I'm sure you remember the hospital last time Mike Harris was around. nftiz you are correct, and expect it to happen again. Healthcare is the biggest cost in the province on a daily basis, and Hudak will look to bring it down.

I was still under voting age back in the Harris days but my memories of it are crystal clear. I can never support the party which gleefully makes cuts that kill Ontarians.

 

[nfitz]

Ouch 5 years before the budget is balanced, just fyi.

So even if Hudak meets his promise of cutting taxes and eliminating the deficit by 2019, then the best we can hope for is restarting subway construction then. And yet the next election (presuming we don't elect a minority government) will be October 2018. So even by his own admission he'd go into the 2018 election with no progression on transit?

How much will filling in Eglinton cost this time?

 

[nfitz]

Look back to the post. I was responding to: "Also someone said subways can be built in 4 years? It takes 8-10 years of construction usually."

8 to 10 years includes design.

 

[sixrings]

and then even at that point you dont think there would be a debate on the technology or the route? its delussional to think that the bickering was solely because the choice of tech this time was LRT. There will always be people who will be against transit because it costs taxes, because it rips up the roads which they want to drive on, because for some people they know that by the time its built they wont benefit from it but only their children or grandchildren will.

 

[ehlow]

8 to 10 years includes design.

It actually doesn't include design if you look at any of underground subways built in Toronto recently (which I cited Sheppard and Spadina extension), or the DRL which from Danforth to King & University is expected to take 15 years.

You can also look at the Eglinton underground section which will take 8 years optimistically and the construction is the same as an underground subway.

I know BurlOak will immediately respond that we should use elevated everywhere, but common, most people mean underground when they talk about subways in Toronto and all subways built recently and subways planned like the DRL would be tunnelled underground. I don't see this changing.

 

[rbt]

Good Points. It's the bickering that makes things the worst. Sheppard should have been up and running last summer. We decided and the Liberals won't start for 3 years, what gives?

That was related to part b) making the money flow. The province ran up against a debt wall (directly related to the 2008 recession).

I'm not sure I would have made the same choices if I was them. Actually, I'm pretty sure I would have ignored Transit City entirely and put nearly equivalent funding into GO. That extra $1B held off would have paid for fare integration Paris style (single RER/Metro fare-zone system, transfers between them allowed).

 

[nfitz]

It actually doesn't include design if you look at any of underground subways built in Toronto recently (which I cited Sheppard and Spadina extension), or the DRL which from Danforth to King & University is expected to take 15 years.

It can be a lot faster. 8 to 10 years is reasonable from beginning to end.

You can also look at the Eglinton underground section which will take 8 years optimistically and the construction is the same as an underground subway.

It's 8 years now, opening in 2020, but before McGuinty cut the budget, Phaes 1 was going to open in 2016. They are slowing construction, to spread out the spending. They could build it faster.

Of course, with Hudak, we will have less subways, so doesn't really matter how fast they'll build it.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

In the 1990's when the PC's made some cuts to Healthcare - it was due to significant reductions in transfers by the Chretien Liberals. And before Harris left, those cuts were restored from Provincial money.
Now Harper has agreed to long term transfers to healthcare (I believe it was 3% above inflation) so cuts are not a concern.

Many people have complained (wrongly) that health costs are out of control, espcially ornge and ehealth. I disagree.

but it was the PCs (FORD) who started the bickering by promising they could build subways for nothing.

True. But still, the liberals should have began the SELRT in 2013, to at least bring it past the point of cancellation.

 

[Adjei]

Wouldn't Hudak need a majority to cancel the LRT's?