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Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

jys said:
I don't disagree with your point. However, larger vehicles also mean fewer drivers and as a result reduced operating expenses.
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Your point already made by the TTC itself stating as much about the Flexities replacing two or more CLRVs and lowering labour costs doing it. There's also the efficiency of carrying more passengers through each signal light phase with longer vehicles
 
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Does anyone here really believe these won’t be jammed on day one? Eglinton is f*cked to drive on. Busses piddling along. Lawrence too. Stop and go from Keele to at least Avenue each night. Finch terrible too. If I could move in a vehicle (not a bus) that had its own ROW, I’d be there on a heartbeat. The gridlock here is brutal. Then downtown...let’s not start.
 
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Used to be that the TTC ran shorter trains (4 cars instead of the normal 6 cars) on weekends. The shorter Gloucester trains used 6 Gloucester cars instead of 8 Gloucester cars.

Even today, Line 4 runs using the shorter 4 car trains at all times.
 
I still don't get how people are Ok with Metrolinx sole sourcing a bunch of the LRVs to Alstrom. Ther Bombardier deal was in herded from the city of Toronto and the TTC so we can't call it sole sourcing.
 
W. K. Lis said:
dmwtoilet.jpg
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He probably does his business in the bushes then.
 
@steveintoronto Your link to the Line 11 Express prompted me to look into some of Paris RER's future plans (Grand Express) and now I'm jealous. Highway ring roads? Forget it - they have a railway ring road planned.
 
yrt+viva=1system said:
I don't think this was mentioned or it was lost amongst the breaking news of the renegotiated contract. CBC is reporting that Alstom will be manufacturing the LRVs in Brampton.
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The fact that that Alstom now has a 'base' in Ontario puts a very different light on any future procurement. For LRT, it may be interesting to compare the Canadian content of these LRV's with those of the Flexities being assembled in Kingston and Thunder Bay. As we know, Bombardier's supply chain is international and many Flexity components are produced offshore. Bombardier's veneer of being the supplier with the highest local content may be up for debate.

This goes beyond sourcing LRV's for the projects that Ontario has already put on the table. Can this new plant assemble EMU's for RER? Is there hope that VIA will get funding to replace its fleet, which is needed even even if HFR doesn't fly? And if VIA is cut back, would Ontario backstop some of that service with its own fleet and service contract?

- Paul
 
It definitely does go beyond LRV manufacturing. After a few nice coffees, I too have been pondering at what this will mean for all future rail based vehicle procurement and manufacturing. Is this the sign that Metrolinx has broken the camel's back (Bombardier's monopoly in Ontario)? It brings up the question now of whether we'll see potential for Alstom vehicles on the TTC? Or the question of, will there be three (well two) manufacturers competing now, after all Alstom and Siemens did agree to a merger. This thought gives a lot of excitement of the potentials of future orders (especially for rail- enthusiasts); the beginning of seeing Alstom and Siemens vehicles/consists in Ontario/Canada.

What is going to be interesting is seeing who will win the contract for RER. The fact that SNCF and Deutsch Bahn are participating makes one (maybe just me) wondering about Alstom and Siemens partnership. Let's be honest, its almost natural to expect that SNCF and Deutsch Bahn to have strong friendly partnerships with the two respective manufacturers.

So the question now, where will this manufacturing base be potentially located in Brampton? Will there be a test track be built as well and will the location be directly connected to a railway corridor?? Exciting times ahead.
 
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yrt+viva=1system said:
So the question now, where will this manufacturing base be potentially located in Brampton? Will there be a test track be built as well and will the location be directly connected to a railway corridor?? Exciting times ahead.
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I'm told that the property which is an existing structure has a connection to the CN mainline, but no idea whether that will remain once Alstom moves in and sets up shop, or whether Alstom intends to use it. No test track is expected.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
I'm told that the property which is an existing structure has a connection to the CN mainline, but no idea whether that will remain once Alstom moves in and sets up shop, or whether Alstom intends to use it. No test track is expected.

- Paul
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So I presume the vehicles will have to be tested at the MSF for the Finch and Hurontario lines. This doesn't sound like a very efficient way to test. If a flaw is found at the MSF, will the vehicles will have to be sent back to Alstom in Brampton? Anyways, I'll assume Alstom knows what they're doing!
 
Neutrino said:
Forget it - they (Paris RER) have a railway ring road planned.
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In fact, Paris had one historically, much of it now used for RER:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemin_de_fer_de_Petite_Ceinture

crs1026 said:
And if VIA is cut back, would Ontario backstop some of that service with its own fleet and service contract?
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The 'HSR' guise is peculiarly suited to do just that. Rather than the scenario you suggest, I think the re-alignment of the Windsor (Or more realistically, London) to Quebec City Corridor will become a provincial partnership, Ont/Que, with the Feds spinning the rest of VIA off into another org, and being a partner with Ont/Que, and Private Enterprise for the 'Eastern Corridor'. I don't see how the present status quo can remain much longer, VIA being starved to death at present, and the re-alignment of vehicle producers/operators.

France open to linking Bombardier with Siemens-Alstom merger
But:
Alstom, Siemens to merge rail businesses to counter China's CRRC
And:
Bombardier should consider rail deal with China's CRRC: Caisse CEO

Something's going to give, and it will be BBD, probably, if not inevitably, in pieces. European operations bought up by Alstom/Siemens, North Am ops bought up by CRRC (who have incredibly deep pockets to finance *entire* train operations, not just build rolling stock).

yrt+viva=1system said:
This thought gives a lot of excitement of the potentials of future orders (especially for rail- enthusiasts); the beginning of seeing Alstom and Siemens vehicles/consists in Ontario/Canada.
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Yup, and I think we're seeing Metrolinx hedging bets on BBD. No more orders for equipment, just to continue running some services.

yrt+viva=1system said:
Let's be honest, its almost natural to expect that SNCF and Deutsch Bahn to have strong friendly partnerships with the two respective manufacturers.
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Actually not. Procurement must meet EU regs, and it's very strictly enforced. And it's open to more than either Alstom or Siemens. None-the-less, consolidation is the name of the game right now, with some very good but smaller producers still in the game. Stadler is hitting way above its weight at this point in time. Even though Swiss, and technically not part of the EU, there's very tight EU trading agreements that render Swiss products *effectively* inside EU. (EEA and EFTA)
 
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