Lack of meaningful Passenger Rail service outside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor

[T3G]

Kingston? There are no regularly scheduled flights between it and Toronto. So the point of comparison must be car vs. train. 2h 34 minutes by car, 3 hr 25 minutes by train. There are certain circumstances where I can see this being a feasible journey to make, but not many of them.

London? First of all, the fact that there even exist flights to cover 175 km is a sign that we are deeply sick in our society. Second of all, there's only 3 regular flights, according to Flightradar24, and they depart at 6:00, 9:45, and 14:45, so if anyone needs to get to YYZ outside of those limited time frames, they are SOL. Third of all, if you're talking about saving time, a flight between these two places is only half an hour, though extra time must be built in to accomodate the delays and unpleasantness associated with air travel. If they are smart, they'd drive, but even with air travel being what it is, there is no way rail transport would be able to compete: 1 hr 45 minutes by car, and 3 hrs 9 minutes by train.

People usually value their time.

 

[micheal_can]

Kingston? There are no regularly scheduled flights between it and Toronto. So the point of comparison must be car vs. train. 2h 34 minutes by car, 3 hr 25 minutes by train. There are certain circumstances where I can see this being a feasible journey to make, but not many of them.

London? First of all, the fact that there even exist flights to cover 175 km is a sign that we are deeply sick in our society. Second of all, there's only 3 regular flights, according to Flightradar24, and they depart at 6:00, 9:45, and 14:45, so if anyone needs to get to YYZ outside of those limited time frames, they are SOL. Third of all, if you're talking about saving time, a flight between these two places is only half an hour, though extra time must be built in to accomodate the delays and unpleasantness associated with air travel. If they are smart, they'd drive, but even with air travel being what it is, there is no way rail transport would be able to compete: 1 hr 45 minutes by car, and 3 hrs 9 minutes by train.

People usually value their time.

Up here, people value their money. So, do I spend $1000 per person round trip to fly to Toronto, or take my full size truck which will cost about $200 round trip in gas and can seat 6? I have gone,just myself to a vacation flying out of Toronto. $200 gas, $300 hotel at both ends of the trip where they had complementary park and ride. That is the same cost as one way flight. It also means doing some shopping in the GTA before heading home.
Lets say the train will cost $100 each way. I'll still spend $20in gas to get to/from the train station. The UPX is $13. So, all told, I am still less than $200 one way. And if a snowstorm is expected, flying from Sudbury can be a challenge. Time is not the only major factor.

 

[Mihairokov]

These all sound like personal questions to overcome more than systemic ones.

Kingston and London are both in the corridor and so aren't really relevant to this thread precisely, nevermind the fact that Kingston is closer to Ottawa airport than Pearson for connections. Depending on where one is flying that would make more sense than trundling through the GTA to get to Pearson.

If you're bringing your concerns/lamenting over your vacation and shopping options between Sudbury and Toronto here you'll have to excuse me and others if we really, really don't care, especially not if you're filling this thread with that as opposed to more on-topic items. We don't really build train routes in this country so that people can go on vacation.

 

[micheal_can]

These all sound like personal questions to overcome more than systemic ones.

Kingston and London are both in the corridor and so aren't really relevant to this thread precisely, nevermind the fact that Kingston is closer to Ottawa airport than Pearson for connections. Depending on where one is flying that would make more sense than trundling through the GTA to get to Pearson.

If you're bringing your concerns/lamenting over your vacation and shopping options between Sudbury and Toronto here you'll have to excuse me and others if we really, really don't care, especially not if you're filling this thread with that as opposed to more on-topic items. We don't really build train routes in this country so that people can go on vacation.

The person on the buses are doing it for various reasons. Vacations are one of them. Most people drive or fly for business because they have the money to burn. I understand most will not care one bit whether anything happens, but I am going to share relevant things. I follow many threads that I rarely comment on because there is nothing for me to add to it. This thread is about the lack of passenger rail outside of the Corridor. What better place to talk about the metrics needed for more meaningful rail service than here?

 

[kEiThZ]

What better place to talk about the metrics needed for more meaningful rail service than here?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sudbury/s/6Iv35Ik9yO

 

[Admiral Beez]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sudbury/s/6Iv35Ik9yO

Goodness, we now have four pages of posts in this thread about Sudbury.

Search results for query: sudbury

urbantoronto.ca

I don't see the challenge though. There are two trains per week, costing about $80 from Sudbury Junction to Union. If there was more demand I expect VIA would add more trains.

 

[kEiThZ]

If you're bringing your concerns/lamenting over your vacation and shopping options between Sudbury and Toronto here you'll have to excuse me and others if we really, really don't care, especially not if you're filling this thread with that as opposed to more on-topic items. We don't really build train routes in this country so that people can go on vacation.

Lives in Sudbury and expects tens or even hundreds of millions spent on rail service because of being a railfan.

Doesn't seem to understand that his choice to live in Sudbury (could have lived anywhere in Canada after his military service) naturally comes with certain compromises. For him that will be less choo-choos. It's like somebody choosing to move to downtown Toronto and then complaining about the lack of greenspace.

Oh and even his last mile complaint? By his own admission he lives on the outskirts of Sudbury at a point at which cellphone reception is poor. Yet then complains that his local transit is poor. Delusional levels of entitlement.

 

[micheal_can]

Goodness, we now have four pages of posts in this thread about Sudbury.

Search results for query: sudbury

urbantoronto.ca

I don't see the challenge though. There are two trains per week, costing about $80 from Sudbury Junction to Union. If there was more demand I expect VIA would add more trains.

Via does not have the equipment to add anything anywhere. If they did, the Canadian would be back to their 3x a week.

 

[lenaitch]

PIA is not Pearson. It is Pakistan International Airlines. I think everyone here knows what YYZ is.

I guess I loose the pedant war for using the acronym for Pearson International Airport instead of its IATA code. I trust you henceforth use YSB in the spirit of consistency.

Check out the stop the buses make. Most if not all are Via stops as well. The actual place they stop may be different,like the Parry Sound stops.

According to the ONR schedule, its Sudbury-Toronto route stops at Alban, Key River, Point au Baril, Parry Sound, Mactier, Port Severn, Coldwater, Orillia, Barrie and Vaughan. According to the VIA timetable, only Parry Sound is a VIA stop.

No. If you looked at the ONR Bus route list, you would see the only university in the city of Sudbury was on it.

Ah, I thought you were referring to Toronto.

 

[lenaitch]

I spend $1000 per person round trip to fly to Toronto

$1000? Seriously?

 

[micheal_can]

I guess I loose the pedant war for using the acronym for Pearson International Airport instead of its IATA code. I trust you henceforth use YSB in the spirit of consistency.

If I shorten it, I would use that code.

According to the ONR schedule, its Sudbury-Toronto route stops at Alban, Key River, Point au Baril, Parry Sound, Mactier, Port Severn, Coldwater, Orillia, Barrie and Vaughan. According to the VIA timetable, only Parry Sound is a VIA stop.

Of all the times I have taken a Sudbury bus it has only ever stopped at Barrie and Parry Sound. I'd imagine the bus would stay and do those local stops. For some of those places, a small station may be able to be located there.

Ah, I thought you were referring to Toronto.

Toronto has many universities with the city boundaries, even more within the GTA. However, if we are being pedantic, within the last few years, NOSM because a full university. How ever, it is located on the Laurentian grounds.

$1000? Seriously?

Did you not see the link for Air Canada? One way fair is around $450+ So,round trip is $900+ That plus is for all the fees ant taxes. So, yes, $1000 round trip.

 

[lenaitch]

Of all the times I have taken a Sudbury bus it has only ever stopped at Barrie and Parry Sound. I'd imagine the bus would stay and do those local stops. For some of those places, a small station may be able to be located there.

They might be 'request stops'.

You're back into a 'what if' world, as opposed to where VIA currently stops. Even at that, VIA doesn't even go through many of them.

Did you not see the link for Air Canada? One way fair is around $450+ So,round trip is $900+ That plus is for all the fees ant taxes. So, yes, $1000 round trip.

Just before I posted I searched it and both AC and Porter were showing under $500, round trip.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Via does not have the equipment to add anything anywhere. If they did, the Canadian would be back to their 3x a week.

Well then, doesn’t that shut down your entire idea of increasing rail service to Sudbury? Are you just catfishing us?

 

[micheal_can]

They might be 'request stops'.

You're back into a 'what if' world, as opposed to where VIA currently stops. Even at that, VIA doesn't even go through many of them.

No one goes through some of them because there are no tracks. For some, there have not been tracks since the 1990s and even I don't live in enough of a dream world to think they will come back.

Just before I posted I searched it and both AC and Porter were showing under $500, round trip.

I checked on AC's website for tomorrow.

Well then, doesn’t that shut down your entire idea of increasing rail service to Sudbury? Are you just catfishing us?

Scroll back... this is not something I see Via doing. It is something that the province might do. It all started with me stating that at the Northlander public meetings, I learned 4 buses a day was their threshold along the line they don't own. So with a private carrier running a bus between Toronto and Sudbury, there is now 4 buses a day on that route.

 

[Islington Express Bus]

In the GTA, people who use the UPX use it because it's convenient for them. Those for whom it is not convenient will not use the service. A long train journey into Toronto, and then backtracking, would not be convenient for anyone besides railfans.

You can already see this in real time right within the city. Do you think that someone who lives near Etobicoke North will take the GO train into the city and then double back on the UPX, or do you think they'll drive the 9 minutes there instead? Now why do you think they would do this if they were coming down from Sudbury?

Trick question...no one lives near Etobicoke North!